The Hierophant is disappointing

[The bloody fire of steel]

Honestly, I expected better.
It is not a character who has an active role, but an external agent who launches ranged attacks, as anything else could be (e.g., a turret, a spore artillery bombardment from a group of Biovores, etc).
There is no direct interaction in any way, other than seeing it walk by for a few seconds.
From this point of view, the Helldrake or the Hive Tyrant are better characterized, despite the fact that they are relevant on the battlefield an infinitesimal fraction, compared to a Titan.

>>>I am not saying that it should have been possible to fight it directly<<<: it would be too strong of course. However, the way it is fought is totally anonymous, and does not do justice to the Hierophant.
For example, why doesn't it attack laser cannons instead of randomly firing at players? Possibly, getting closer to go and destroy them with claws and bites, since it sees that they are the things shooting at it. Instead, it is reduced to a disturbing element in the distance.

I don't know how I would have imagined a fight with this titan, but this way it seems like a wasted opportunity.

As an example, if the roles were hypothetically opposite, would this be how we would want the thrill of a fight with a Warhound titan?

EDIT:
Some people didn't read what I wrote, so I highlighted it.
I do NOT mean that I wanted a direct fight, like 3 marines shooting from underneath a titan and defeating it. The Hierophant would kill them in a few seconds, and it would do well.
I mean instead that there would have been countless other (indirect) cooler ways to fight it, and with more interaction.
To explain myself better, I'll give you some examples that came to mind now, but there could be many.
- Have the Cadians use that nice Baneblade we see during the campaign, and maybe a few others in a squadron (and also several other Russ etc.), and help them in some way.
- Move around the Titan, avoiding its tail and tentacles as well as its bio cannons, to place a transmitter on its position, then call in an orbital bombardment
- Air Force. Somehow help some Thunderhawks hit the Hierophant with their Thunderhawk cannons and Hellstrike missiles. Or coordinate a bombing run with the Marauder Bombers we see at the beginning of the game.
- etc.

[Teran]

Do you think that maybe the reason for that is a heirophant could kill 3 space marines effortlessly?

What even is this type of post? lol

Do you know what fights heirophants directly? Not 3 man squads of space marines no matter how much plot armor they have.

Other races use titans... or orbital bombardments or if you're super desperate, ground based defenses designed to kill massive creatures / vehicles.

[HHH]

You're right, and the thing I don't really understand is why it just walked over where the space marines were and decided to sit at range, conveniently in sight of a battery of lascannons. It could have easily ended the squad the first time it saw us. It feels just a little silly.

[Prussian Wolf]

Originally posted by Teran:

Do you think that maybe the reason for that is a heirophant could kill 3 space marines effortlessly?

What even is this type of post? lol

Do you know what fights heirophants directly? Not 3 man squads of space marines no matter how much plot armor they have.

Other races use titans... or orbital bombardments or if you're super desperate, ground based defenses designed to kill massive creatures / vehicles.

They announced it as a "new enemy". They didn't have to add it.

It's a really dumb finale, it doesn't feel like an "enemy" in the way that every single person would assume. It's a kinda lame set-piece for one finale.

[HHH]

Originally posted by Teran:

Do you know what fights heirophants directly? Not 3 man squads of space marines no matter how much plot armor they have.

It essentially died to a 3 man squad of space marines. That's why it's silly. The op could have been executed any number of ways that would have made more sense than what we got, which is what the OP is trying to say.

[Johnno]

Having taken down a warhound titan in melee with ground units (veteran assault marines) in tabletop play, I'd certainly love to be able to do that in SM2. However, it'd be far more suited for an epic "once in a lifetime" battle during the campaign in that case, rather than something repeated over and over again in ops.

With that in mind I think the Hierophant battle is fine. You get some cinematics of it, and then take it out. It does get closer if you take longer to kill it, or did at least once for me. At least for me the sensation of "we took down a titan by using defensive laser cannons" is far more feasible than "we ganked it in melee".

What difference would it make it if attacked the laser cannons? Would you want a failure mode where if you're not quick enough it takes out all the cannons and you lose? I dunno, maybe it already does that, it seemed awfully close that one time for me. Hmm, something to try on easiest difficulty I suppose.

It could have a few more attack modes perhaps, different bioweapons, maybe some ground shaking effect or something. *shrug* I think it's fine as is but that's just me.

[rases]

You are absolutely right. In my mind, I could imagine that he was there to keep the Guard away from interfering with the feeding tendrils, and he got caught between the Guards' Anvil and us being the hammer, unable to reposition or focus too much on a single group otherwise the others would've caused too much damage. And being stuck between a rock and a hard place, he went down dirty.

I wish the mission could've been more like the Scarab fight in Halo 2, but considering that we are a bunch of no-names, I can't see how we could've fought a full power Hierotitan without some Deus-ex-machina BS.

[Teran]

Originally posted by Prussian Wolf:

Originally posted by Teran:

Do you think that maybe the reason for that is a heirophant could kill 3 space marines effortlessly?

What even is this type of post? lol

Do you know what fights heirophants directly? Not 3 man squads of space marines no matter how much plot armor they have.

Other races use titans... or orbital bombardments or if you're super desperate, ground based defenses designed to kill massive creatures / vehicles.

They announced it as a "new enemy". They didn't have to add it.

It's a really dumb finale, it doesn't feel like an "enemy" in the way that every single person would assume. It's a kinda lame set-piece for one finale.

I've seen no evidence that the new enemy is the heirophant. You're either making assumptions or projecting.

[Fumero]

Originally posted by The bloody fire of steel:

Honestly, I expected better.
It is not a character who has an active role, but an external agent who launches ranged attacks, as anything else could be (e.g., a turret, a spore artillery bombardment from a group of Biovores, etc).
There is no direct interaction in any way, other than seeing it walk by for a few seconds.
From this point of view, the Helldrake or the Hive Tyrant are better characterized, despite the fact that they are relevant on the battlefield an infinitesimal fraction, compared to a Titan.

I am not saying that it should have been possible to fight it directly: it would be too strong of course, however, the way it is fought is totally anonymous, and does not do justice to the Hierophant.
For example, why doesn't it attack laser cannons instead of randomly firing at players? Possibly, getting closer to go and destroy them with claws and bites, since it sees that they are the things shooting at it. Instead, it is reduced to a disturbing element in the distance.

I don't know how I would have imagined a fight with this titan, but this way it seems like a wasted opportunity.

As an example, if the roles were hypothetically opposite, would this be how we would want the thrill of a fight with a Warhound titan?

Dude, its not a dark souls game.

[Prussian Wolf]

Originally posted by Teran:

Originally posted by Prussian Wolf:

They announced it as a "new enemy". They didn't have to add it.

It's a really dumb finale, it doesn't feel like an "enemy" in the way that every single person would assume. It's a kinda lame set-piece for one finale.

I've seen no evidence that the new enemy is the heirophant. You're either making assumptions or projecting.

Um... I don't even know where to start.

You've mis-used the term "Projecting".

The evidence is... they added it, it's a new enemy, and in their post launch video and announcement on steam they keep talking about it in the context of their roadmap. New map, bio-titan, difficulty, weapon, cosmetics, and then they go to "future seasons". They don't mention another new enemy in 2024.

My "assumptions" (btw it's one assumption) are based off of the things they have said. In the same vein - I can assume the map is the map they promised, unless they actually come out and say differently. It's not a leap at all.

I mean more power to them, if they announce a new enemy, cool. But they literally revealed the map, gun, cosmetics, and difficulty. It would be the only thing left on the roadmap, if it's not the Bio-Titan.

[ganjou241]

Originally posted by The bloody fire of steel:

Honestly, I expected better.
It is not a character who has an active role, but an external agent who launches ranged attacks, as anything else could be (e.g., a turret, a spore artillery bombardment from a group of Biovores, etc).
There is no direct interaction in any way, other than seeing it walk by for a few seconds.
From this point of view, the Helldrake or the Hive Tyrant are better characterized, despite the fact that they are relevant on the battlefield an infinitesimal fraction, compared to a Titan.

I am not saying that it should have been possible to fight it directly: it would be too strong of course, however, the way it is fought is totally anonymous, and does not do justice to the Hierophant.
For example, why doesn't it attack laser cannons instead of randomly firing at players? Possibly, getting closer to go and destroy them with claws and bites, since it sees that they are the things shooting at it. Instead, it is reduced to a disturbing element in the distance.

I don't know how I would have imagined a fight with this titan, but this way it seems like a wasted opportunity.

As an example, if the roles were hypothetically opposite, would this be how we would want the thrill of a fight with a Warhound titan?

You can actually damage it with conventional means if it's close enough...IDK if it's possible to kill it without the artillery or is there an achievement for doing so.

[Johnno]

Originally posted by Johnno:

Would you want a failure mode where if you're not quick enough it takes out all the cannons and you lose? I dunno, maybe it already does that, it seemed awfully close that one time for me. Hmm, something to try on easiest difficulty I suppose.

Originally posted by ganjou241:

You can actually damage it with conventional means if it's close enough...IDK if it's possible to kill it without the artillery or is there an achievement for doing so.

Fun to hear ganjou, I didn't think to try that (plus I was running vanguard so short range pew pews, and two bots).

So just finished a minimal difficulty run, tried to extend the run for as long as possible, before firing the cannons for the first time you just get voice lines about having to arm the cannons, the titan just seemed to move around a bit at that point.

After taking initial shots at it it'd move back and forth, and sideways, from location to location, not necessarily in a pattern but at times it did come quite close. Can certainly see now that it might be possible to hit it with conventional weapons.

Alas, I waited for as long as I could, eventually even running out of stims, didn't seem to reach any failure mode. Waiting between shots I'd again just get spammed with voicelines about arming the cannons or linking the servo skull.

Enjoying it even more now that I played it at lower difficulty and could look at it bit more.

[The bloody fire of steel]

I have updated my first message.

Anyway, in response to the user who said that you can damage the Hierophant with normal weapons, I have tried several times out of curiosity but I don't see that.
I also tried with the plasma cannon and las fusil, but nothing happened.

[Vrakos Anthrakir]

Originally posted by The bloody fire of steel:

I have updated my first message.

Anyway, in response to the user who said that you can damage the Hierophant with normal weapons, I have tried several times out of curiosity but I don't see that.
I also tried with the plasma cannon and las fusil, but nothing happened.

okay so I spent about two hours in the mission just now, you can kill the bio-titan without using the cannons. There's a range falloff where your bolts can no longer do damage to it, just seems like bolts stop rendering (was playing tactical). It has to be close in (closer than half its 'patrol' distance to damage it (and it does have a headshot hit box). I unfortunately don't really have a screenshot. At about the 1.5 hour mark I was kinda suspecting that it was set so only the cannons could finish the job and I was really surprised when I got the kill. Best place to fight it is right after you get off the elevator to go out onto the ramparts and there's the last loadout switcher. The bio-titan will actually start attacking you with its acid instead of bombarding the distance once you deal enough damage to it, but you can just lurk inside the building.

[Wakipai Pero #PLAYGG]

Yeah my first time running the mission I actually forgot about it until the end, where it appeared again. It should've been a constant menace, and we'd slowly whittle it down with various weapon emplacements and tactics. Hell, as a finale, let it be lying on the ground, writhing, dying, and let us fight our way there to finish it off somehow.

[AonGreyFox]

I feel like this is far better than turret section that every crappy game love so much.

I'm not sure about SM arsenal. But I do heard that they usually have meme of if 1 bolter don't work. Duct tape more bolter with new shinny name and it solve the problem. So I guess a bio-exterminator... a gating turret with 100 bolter duct tape together sound nice :3

I do agree that use laser to weaken it and finish with something more climatic would be more enjoyable to watch... but which one?