Why Vanguard is better then Assault?

[DELAMAIN]

i dont understand...
i know Vanguard is better by videos , guides, gameplay etc...but i dont get why....

1.) same melee dps playstyle
2.) same damage and team role to kill ranged elites etc
3.) same mobility skill
4.) Vang restores life , Assault restores armor
and etc all feels same to me but...

so pretty much all same but is see that Gunstrikes which are major thing on Lethal
much better on Assault...
note: Gunstrikes not recorded in endgame screen

[Roan Shiran]

Vanguard has better survivability than assault. Anyway assault is much better against tyranids and vanguard is slightly better against chaos.

[w10-20-2000]

Vanguard:
-Can self heal
-Has very useful perks to shorten ability cooldown
-Has melta to stagger big groups of enemies or kill hordes of small
-Has claw to quickly reach ranged enemies or get away from trouble
-Has increased parry window by 50% with perk so every parry is perfect

Assault:
-No healing
-No main range weapon only sidearm
-Very long cooldown on jetpack
-Jetpack takes long time to charge attack and you are vulnerable while in air
-Basically no useful perks outside of increase gun strike damage

[Sloths]

Originally posted by DELAMAIN:

i dont understand...
i know Vanguard is better by videos , guides, gameplay etc...but i dont get why....

1.) same melee dps playstyle
2.) same damage and team role to kill ranged elites etc
3.) same mobility skill
4.) Vang restores life , Assault restores armor
and etc all feels same to me but...

so pretty much all same but is see that Gunstrikes which are major thing on Lethal
much better on Assault...
note: Gunstrikes not recorded in endgame screen

I wouldn't say one is better or worse than the other they both are good in my book.
I prefer assault though. Against tyranids you will have endless jumps as long as there are packs of enemies to squash. Chaos you can go the other direction and make it so your jumps insta execute status the chaos space marines.
The self healing of vanguard is nice. With the better parry window and dodge vanguards can be quite tanky too.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by w10-20-2000:

Vanguard:
-Can self heal
-Has very useful perks to shorten ability cooldown
-Has melta to stagger big groups of enemies or kill hordes of small
-Has claw to quickly reach ranged enemies or get away from trouble
-Has increased parry window by 50% with perk so every parry is perfect

Assault:
-No healing
-No main range weapon only sidearm
-Very long cooldown on jetpack
-Jetpack takes long time to charge attack and you are vulnerable while in air
-Basically no useful perks outside of increase gun strike damage

Vanguard ability is mediocre and he has ammo problems with melta. Moreover increased parry window in only useful when you are tanking many mobs at once. On the other hand assault has powerful ability with fast recharge after multikill and has to be in air for around half second only. His sidearm is really good. Moreover vanguard usually steals almost every takedown and has no good team skill. Vanguard generally has weak skills except life drain.

Vanguard is better at tanking but worse at dealing dmg.

[DELAMAIN]

Originally posted by w10-20-2000:

Vanguard:
-Can self heal
-Has very useful perks to shorten ability cooldown
-Has melta to stagger big groups of enemies or kill hordes of small
-Has claw to quickly reach ranged enemies or get away from trouble
-Has increased parry window by 50% with perk so every parry is perfect

Assault:
-No healing
-No main range weapon only sidearm
-Very long cooldown on jetpack
-Jetpack takes long time to charge attack and you are vulnerable while in air
-Basically no useful perks outside of increase gun strike damage

regarding what you said on assault...

it has armor heal instead of health heal like Vang.
Sidearm has big damage+gunstrike which is headshot = huge damage.
Jetpack cd can be Zero if used correctly.
perks are great and synergize together. ( like gunstrikes+heavy bolt+armor and infinite jetpack+jetpack damage )

and regarding melta/main weapon on vang. why i want to use ranged when my goal is to close gap and do meelee damage?

[Hellsteeth30]

It gets range if it chooses, the Instigator is solid if you can aim. If not you have Melta, The Oculus is usable too. Plus Instigator is an answer to the 'Thrope question, Assault has to tickle them.

The self-heal is clutch, you'll be out of armour often which means you'll be getting health damage more.

Vanguard's parry perk is arguably better than Assault's dodge perk.

Assault sucks for Chaos too.

Assault has a vastly superior secondary weapon though, and superior trash clear.

Melee is mostly trash as nearly all the melee weapons are feather dusters on higher difficulties.

[DELAMAIN]

Originally posted by Roan Shiran:

Originally posted by w10-20-2000:

Vanguard:
-Can self heal
-Has very useful perks to shorten ability cooldown
-Has melta to stagger big groups of enemies or kill hordes of small
-Has claw to quickly reach ranged enemies or get away from trouble
-Has increased parry window by 50% with perk so every parry is perfect

Assault:
-No healing
-No main range weapon only sidearm
-Very long cooldown on jetpack
-Jetpack takes long time to charge attack and you are vulnerable while in air
-Basically no useful perks outside of increase gun strike damage

Vanguard ability is mediocre and he has ammo problems with melta. Moreover increased parry window in only useful when you are tanking many mobs at once. On the other hand assault has powerful ability with fast recharge after multikill and has to be in air for around half second only. His sidearm is really good. Moreover vanguard usually steals almost every takedown and has no good team skill. Vanguard generally has weak skills except life drain.

Vanguard is better at tanking but worse at dealing dmg.

thats what i mean....Vanguard is better at tanking but worse at dealing dmg. [/quote]
How Vang can be better tank if has 2 armor. bla bla heal...armor heal vs health heal

[DELAMAIN]

Originally posted by Hellsteeth30:

It gets range if it chooses, the Instigator is solid if you can aim. If not you have Melta, The Oculus is usable too. Plus Instigator is an answer to the 'Thrope question, Assault has to tickle them.

The self-heal is clutch, you'll be out of armour often which means you'll be getting health damage more.

Vanguard's parry perk is arguably better than Assault's dodge perk.

Assault sucks for Chaos too.

Assault has a vastly superior secondary weapon though, and superior trash clear.

Melee is mostly trash as nearly all the melee weapons are feather dusters on higher difficulties.

same here. why to use ranged as Vang if i need to be close? i am meelee dps with perks for meelee dps.
Assault dont take health damage bec he restores armor in fight.

[DELAMAIN]

i dont understand logic WHY i need to do ranged on VAng if i am meelee dps focused on melee dps

[w10-20-2000]

Originally posted by DELAMAIN:

Originally posted by w10-20-2000:

Vanguard:
-Can self heal
-Has very useful perks to shorten ability cooldown
-Has melta to stagger big groups of enemies or kill hordes of small
-Has claw to quickly reach ranged enemies or get away from trouble
-Has increased parry window by 50% with perk so every parry is perfect

Assault:
-No healing
-No main range weapon only sidearm
-Very long cooldown on jetpack
-Jetpack takes long time to charge attack and you are vulnerable while in air
-Basically no useful perks outside of increase gun strike damage

regarding what you said on assault...

it has armor heal instead of health heal like Vang.
Sidearm has big damage+gunstrike which is headshot = huge damage.
Jetpack cd can be Zero if used correctly.
perks are great and synergize together. ( like gunstrikes+heavy bolt+armor and infinite jetpack+jetpack damage )

and regarding melta/main weapon on vang. why i want to use ranged when my goal is to close gap and do meelee damage?

Van can replenish armor and health with finishers which is OP my Van almost never goes down and all stims go to team

Jetpack CAN, but van HAS claw always due to finishers restoration and lower cooldown

You want melta because when you surronded by enemies as Assault you take damage or spam C hoping range units not outdamage armour from minoris. Or when you encounter big group of Majoris Van can spam them with melta and kill all, you as Assault will have to waste jetpack charge and hope they don't run away or kill then one by one

Van is just much more survivable and versatile. Assault i meet on lethal frequently run away from fighting to restore armour or because range damage is too much for them

[Stormtempter]

Restoring health is way better than restoring armor. That single facet makes the Vanguard preferred over Assault for me. Having a main weapon -AND- that main weapon auto reloads on execute means you are good for the zoans and neurothorpes and combined with the parry window bonus means you're flush for crowds, you can unload a full clip from range, and zip in, execute, unload a full clip from point blank, execute, then zip back out from the crowd or stay in and just constantly parry+gunstrike perfectly as your health stays topped off.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by DELAMAIN:

thats what i mean....Vanguard is better at tanking but worse at dealing dmg.
How Vang can be better tank if has 2 armor. bla bla heal...armor heal vs health heal

Vang is better tank because he has good sustain with life drain and increased parry window is good against many mobs at once. He has faster melee weapons too and I think they have faster recovery after parry. With melta he has powerful heal regain. Yeah, assault has more armor and armor regain, but in lethal you dont do as many gunstrikes, especially against chaos.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by DELAMAIN:

same here. why to use ranged as Vang if i need to be close? i am meelee dps with perks for meelee dps.
Assault dont take health damage bec he restores armor in fight.

At lethal you melee to stagger, not to do dmg unless you want to ammo. Vang needs smg tho.

[w10-20-2000]

Originally posted by Roan Shiran:

Originally posted by w10-20-2000:

Vanguard:
-Can self heal
-Has very useful perks to shorten ability cooldown
-Has melta to stagger big groups of enemies or kill hordes of small
-Has claw to quickly reach ranged enemies or get away from trouble
-Has increased parry window by 50% with perk so every parry is perfect

Assault:
-No healing
-No main range weapon only sidearm
-Very long cooldown on jetpack
-Jetpack takes long time to charge attack and you are vulnerable while in air
-Basically no useful perks outside of increase gun strike damage

Vanguard ability is mediocre and he has ammo problems with melta. Moreover increased parry window in only useful when you are tanking many mobs at once. On the other hand assault has powerful ability with fast recharge after multikill and has to be in air for around half second only. His sidearm is really good. Moreover vanguard usually steals almost every takedown and has no good team skill. Vanguard generally has weak skills except life drain.

Vanguard is better at tanking but worse at dealing dmg.

Not gonna argue with you, last time it got heated and lead to nowhere. I think Van is better at everything than Assault. You think differently. I accept and leave it at that

[Sloths]

Originally posted by Hellsteeth30:

It gets range if it chooses, the Instigator is solid if you can aim. If not you have Melta, The Oculus is usable too. Plus Instigator is an answer to the 'Thrope question, Assault has to tickle them.

The self-heal is clutch, you'll be out of armour often which means you'll be getting health damage more.

Vanguard's parry perk is arguably better than Assault's dodge perk.

Assault sucks for Chaos too.

Assault has a vastly superior secondary weapon though, and superior trash clear.

Melee is mostly trash as nearly all the melee weapons are feather dusters on higher difficulties.

That's a pretty good summary overall. Just would like to add for assault on chaos you can pick perks to jump and insta execute status the chaos space marines. That goes a long way to help on chaos missions. Especially when they spawn in. Jump into the pack killing all the minoris and having all the majoris in execute status.

As far as melee damage assault is about the same or a little better damage than a sniper on a typical lethal run so I wouldn't say they hit like feather dusters. Sniper better damage overall on chaos. Assault better overall damage on lethal.