Titus' "demotion"

[Aya]

I thought the idea of Titus being a Lieutenant was to address a canon conflict between Space Marine 1 and the rest of the 40K universe, due to the title of the Ultramarines 2nd Company's Captain being held by Cato Sicarius. Why talk about demotion for something that's intended to be a retcon?

[zastcat]

because they already resolved the canon conflict by saying titus had the job before cato sicarius did then his getting grabbed by the inquisitor at the end of 1 is what opened it up for cato

his demotion after that is because of a mix of him being away for so long and the fact that there's yet another captain in charge of the 2nd at this point in the timeline

[Aya]

Originally posted by zastcat:

because they already resolved the canon conflict by saying titus had the job before cato sicarius did then his getting grabbed by the inquisitor at the end of 1 is what opened it up for cato

his demotion after that is because of a mix of him being away for so long and the fact that there's yet another captain in charge of the 2nd at this point in the timeline

Which still doesn't make much sense, cuz I'm pretty sure Cato had the title of Captain of the 2nd Company well before Games Workshop even came up with Captain Titus as a character.

The only reason why we know Titus as a Captain is because Relic Entertainment ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up on their part of 40K's lore when making a game that exists in the same continuity as the Dawn of War games (IIRC, Space Marine 1 takes place in just a few years after DOW2 Retribution)

[STARSBarry]

Originally posted by zastcat:

because they already resolved the canon conflict by saying titus had the job before cato sicarius did then his getting grabbed by the inquisitor at the end of 1 is what opened it up for cato

his demotion after that is because of a mix of him being away for so long and the fact that there's yet another captain in charge of the 2nd at this point in the timeline

Na here's the real reason, is because the Primaris lieutenant helmet looks cooler. If they actually wanted to have the story make sense and not base this entire contrivance on marketing teams demanding ♥♥♥♥ then he would still be a Blackshield. There are far too many "that is utter BS" around Titus and how is being treated by the Ultramarines outside of a marketing team deciding this is the coolest look he can have as an Ultramarine and then contriving a made up reason for him to get there for it to be anything else.

He doesn't even get to keep his Deathwatch pauldron, that's literally how dedicated to the bit they are here, If deathwatch actually sold models, then you bet he would have it.

[zastcat]

so I take it from both responses this is less a thread of "hey what happened" and more a thread of "I'm upset this happened"? cause if so, I'm sorry but nothing I can say is going to make you less upset

40k doesn't exactly stick to a strict set in stone standard for things and when you have several different writers and companies contributing to the canon there's going to be some inconsistencies

and if the anger is just "oh they went with what would make money" then... aye, they did, companies like money and if they think something will get them more odds are pretty good they're going to go for it, frankly if that's a breaking point for anybody then I sympathize but you're going to be hard pressed to find any company that doesn't do that

[UnCivilServant]

Originally posted by Aya:

Originally posted by zastcat:

because they already resolved the canon conflict by saying titus had the job before cato sicarius did then his getting grabbed by the inquisitor at the end of 1 is what opened it up for cato

his demotion after that is because of a mix of him being away for so long and the fact that there's yet another captain in charge of the 2nd at this point in the timeline

Which still doesn't make much sense, cuz I'm pretty sure Cato had the title of Captain of the 2nd Company well before Games Workshop even came up with Captain Titus as a character.

The only reason why we know Titus as a Captain is because Relic Entertainment ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up on their part of 40K's lore when making a game that exists in the same continuity as the Dawn of War games (IIRC, Space Marine 1 takes place in just a few years after DOW2 Retribution)

Real World Cato is older. In universe, he's newer.

You're saying that in universe Cato must also be older than the Heresy-era characters because he was created before them in the real world.

There's ten thousand years of 2nd company Captains who were not Cato.

[Aya]

Originally posted by UnCivilServant:

Originally posted by Aya:

Which still doesn't make much sense, cuz I'm pretty sure Cato had the title of Captain of the 2nd Company well before Games Workshop even came up with Captain Titus as a character.

The only reason why we know Titus as a Captain is because Relic Entertainment ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up on their part of 40K's lore when making a game that exists in the same continuity as the Dawn of War games (IIRC, Space Marine 1 takes place in just a few years after DOW2 Retribution)

Real World Cato is older. In universe, he's newer.

You're saying that in universe Cato must also be older than the Heresy-era characters because he was created before them in the real world.

There's ten thousand years of 2nd company Captains who were not Cato.

I could be misremembering 40K lore, but I thought Cato Sicarius was Captain since late M39 to M40. Captain Titus' exploits to my knowledge were more recent events since Dawn of War 2 and Space Marine 1 is around the late 41st Millennium

[Chaoslord 87]

Originally posted by Aya:

I could be misremembering 40K lore, but I thought Cato Sicarius was Captain since late M39 to M40. Captain Titus' exploits to my knowledge were more recent events since Dawn of War 2 and Space Marine 1 is around the late 41st Millennium

After a quick check at the wiki, his earliest recorded Award, the Imperial Laurel, was awarded to him in 733.M41. So he could be around since mid M41.

Titus was officialy born 175 years before the end of M41, which means 825.M41.

Even taking into account that the Imperial calendar is very unreliable (5 different variants which differs up to a millenia), Titus timeline would make more sense if they retcon his birthdate at 500-600.M41 as well.

[zmanbuilder]

Interesting.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Chaoslord 87:

Originally posted by Aya:

I could be misremembering 40K lore, but I thought Cato Sicarius was Captain since late M39 to M40. Captain Titus' exploits to my knowledge were more recent events since Dawn of War 2 and Space Marine 1 is around the late 41st Millennium

After a quick check at the wiki, his earliest recorded Award, the Imperial Laurel, was awarded to him in 733.M41. So he could be around since mid M41.

Titus was officialy born 175 years before the end of M41, which means 825.M41.

Even taking into account that the Imperial calendar is very unreliable (5 different variants which differs up to a millenia), Titus timeline would make more sense if they retcon his birthdate at 500-600.M41 as well.

So if the imperial calendar is as unreliable as you say, then would that keep the lore from being broken?

[Chaoslord 87]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

So if the imperial calendar is as unreliable as you say, then would that keep the lore from being broken?

I suppose it´s also a tool for giving GW and BL writers enough leeway to adding or retconning events without disrupting the already established timeline.

Lorewise the Imperial Calendar became such a splintered and unreliable mess due to the sheer size of the Imperium and the localized disstortion of time and space caused by the Cicatrix Maledictum (the giant warp rift which splits the Galaxy)

Or as they say:"Everything is canon, not everything is true"

[Tyvolus]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

Interesting.

indeed.

[Deadoon]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

So if the imperial calendar is as unreliable as you say, then would that keep the lore from being broken?

There is the other problem with warp travel being non-linear. Someone can enter and travel through the warp and end up BEFORE their departure on the other end sometimes, or get stuck there for centuries(or more) from an external perspective and not notice.

Time keeping with all of this going on is a headache to say the least, so sometimes corrections have to be made.

Edit: While googling this I came across this ork: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grizgutz
Literally killed himself to have a spare copy of his own gun.

[Chaoslord 87]

Originally posted by Deadoon:

There is the other problem with warp travel being non-linear. Someone can enter and travel through the warp and end up BEFORE their departure on the other end sometimes, or get stuck there for centuries(or more) from an external perspective and not notice.

Time keeping with all of this going on is a headache to say the least, so sometimes corrections have to be made.

Edit: While googling this I came across this ork: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grizgutz
Literally killed himself to have a spare copy of his own gun.

And if you don´t mind reading Novels, "Death of Integrety" is about a spaceship and it´s Crew reemeging from the Warp after 15-20k years realtime but probably only a couple months or years for them.

And their first contact with an Imperial world didn´t go well.....

[Tyvolus]

Originally posted by Chaoslord 87:

Originally posted by Deadoon:

There is the other problem with warp travel being non-linear. Someone can enter and travel through the warp and end up BEFORE their departure on the other end sometimes, or get stuck there for centuries(or more) from an external perspective and not notice.

Time keeping with all of this going on is a headache to say the least, so sometimes corrections have to be made.

Edit: While googling this I came across this ork: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grizgutz
Literally killed himself to have a spare copy of his own gun.

And if you don´t mind reading Novels, "Death of Integrety" is about a spaceship and it´s Crew reemeging from the Warp after 15-20k years realtime but probably only a couple months or years for them.

And their first contact with an Imperial world didn´t go well.....

might have to check it out.

[TheOwl.Cafe | Night Owl]

For those talking about Cato Sicarious being captain and it was a retcon.... hear me out, what if they both were captains and Guilliman was upset they didn't adhere to the codex mandated 1 captain per company bs?