Female Astartes?

[Werwolf]

cause if so, guess it is a no.

[Xlax]

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/1br0nv8/gws_1987_female_warrior_gabs/

Female space marines were a thing being sold by GW in the 1980's the main reason why they stopped is because they didn't sell well. Tabletop games during the 80's and 90's were mostly played by men, since men didn't want to buy those figures they stopped producing them. The real reason for there not being female space marines and Astartes is because there wasn't a market for them then, like there is now. They used the "lore" to justify the reason why they couldn't afford to produce figurines of female models.

many of us know this, but it is written in the lore now as well. Not like they don't retcon ♥♥♥♥, but consistency and building on said consistency is what makes a product better. There have been plenty of stupid and rage inducing additions. Latest of which is female custodes because of stupid ass amazon wanting stronk womyn who don't need no man or power armor

[Googledebunker]

Originally posted by Dagoth Ur:

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

Who do you consider "normal people"?

People who just want a good game without someone shoving politic down the players throat doesn't matter if its left or right.

Do you think OP should close this post since they are shoving their politics down our throats? I see no mention or advertising about the game having Female space marines, so it seems pretty pointless to make a post about it, other than to stir up drama.

[Dagoth Ur]

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

Originally posted by Dagoth Ur:

People who just want a good game without someone shoving politic down the players throat doesn't matter if its left or right.

Do you think OP should close this post since they are shoving their politics down our throats? I see no mention or advertising about the game having Female space marines, so it seems pretty pointless to make a post about it, other than to stir up drama.

the ♥♥♥♥ you talking adding female space marines will only be done for political reason if this was 10 years ago i would agree in saying its not. but we all know why there doing this and anyone who says they don't or aren't is blind,lying or just not online a lot.

[Narky]

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/1br0nv8/gws_1987_female_warrior_gabs/

Female space marines were a thing being sold by GW in the 1980's the main reason why they stopped is because they didn't sell well. Tabletop games during the 80's and 90's were mostly played by men, since men didn't want to buy those figures they stopped producing them. The real reason for there not being female space marines and Astartes is because there wasn't a market for them then, like there is now. They used the "lore" to justify the reason why they couldn't afford to produce figurines of female models.

GW would have made female Astartes and Space Marines the whole time if their initial models had sold as well as their male counterparts. GW is a business, they want to make money 1st.

It's simple enough, people want to play with women space marines so the company is going to make it so, therefore the God Emperor has made it a reality, and they will write in some lore to support this, just like every other conflicting bit of information that has come out about the 40k universe. He is God, he can do whatever he wants, that's the whole point.

Some of y'all seem to think everything is based on identity politics when it's just a company giving people a product they are asking for. You don't need to buy or play with the female space marine figurines, just play with the 30+ years of male space marine figurines you have amassed, and will continue to amass since they aren't going anywhere. Unless everyone stops buying the male space marines that is.

When a company starts selling a new product, that's them trying to make more money, it's not a political statement in itself, the marketing ultimately chooses the tone of how a product is sold. They aren't advertising the game as a "girl power" pander. The whole "anti-woke" crowd is stuck in 2016, when marketing companies have already changed their strategy. They know yelling "girl power!" isn't going to get them more customers, believe it or not but most people don't like to be overtly pandered to, they want a good quality product with more options.

Not considering customer feedback is just bad business.

It's amazing that a series about the far flung future, humans being genetically altered, new organs and chemicals used to change people into demi-gods, being able to learn and remember from eating other people/species, but a soldier having more estrogen is where some draw a hard line, because their immersion is broken? lmao.

This is quite literally a big fact dump.

I'd also like to mention that Alan Merrett, who had worked with GW for 36 years and was the primary "fixer" of the company, pretty much supported this by saying the only reason there were no female space marines wasn't for a lore reason.

It was purely because the models at the time were not selling.

Emphasis, he said "female space marines".

Not 'prototype Adepta Sororitas' (as I've seen that argument thrown around based on speculation a few times).

If female Space Marines make a come back, it will purely be because there is now a viable, big enough market for them.

[Edit] Alan Merrett's quote:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/female-space-marines-merrett-1.jpg

[Dagoth Ur]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/1br0nv8/gws_1987_female_warrior_gabs/

Female space marines were a thing being sold by GW in the 1980's the main reason why they stopped is because they didn't sell well. Tabletop games during the 80's and 90's were mostly played by men, since men didn't want to buy those figures they stopped producing them. The real reason for there not being female space marines and Astartes is because there wasn't a market for them then, like there is now. They used the "lore" to justify the reason why they couldn't afford to produce figurines of female models.

GW would have made female Astartes and Space Marines the whole time if their initial models had sold as well as their male counterparts. GW is a business, they want to make money 1st.

It's simple enough, people want to play with women space marines so the company is going to make it so, therefore the God Emperor has made it a reality, and they will write in some lore to support this, just like every other conflicting bit of information that has come out about the 40k universe. He is God, he can do whatever he wants, that's the whole point.

Some of y'all seem to think everything is based on identity politics when it's just a company giving people a product they are asking for. You don't need to buy or play with the female space marine figurines, just play with the 30+ years of male space marine figurines you have amassed, and will continue to amass since they aren't going anywhere. Unless everyone stops buying the male space marines that is.

When a company starts selling a new product, that's them trying to make more money, it's not a political statement in itself, the marketing ultimately chooses the tone of how a product is sold. They aren't advertising the game as a "girl power" pander. The whole "anti-woke" crowd is stuck in 2016, when marketing companies have already changed their strategy. They know yelling "girl power!" isn't going to get them more customers, believe it or not but most people don't like to be overtly pandered to, they want a good quality product with more options.

Not considering customer feedback is just bad business.

It's amazing that a series about the far flung future, humans being genetically altered, new organs and chemicals used to change people into demi-gods, being able to learn and remember from eating other people/species, but a soldier having more estrogen is where some draw a hard line, because their immersion is broken? lmao.

This is quite literally a big fact dump.

I'd also like to mention that Alan Merrett, who had worked with GW for 36 years and was the primary "fixer" of the company, pretty much supported this by saying the only reason there were no female space marines wasn't for a lore reason.

It was purely because the models at the time were not selling.

Emphasis, he said "female space marines".

Not 'prototype Adepta Sororitas' (as I've seen that argument thrown around based on speculation a few times).

Once again i'll ask, are you stupid or just stupid? if female space marines where so important and GW wanted them why bother removing them completely from the lore if they wanted them that badly they would have a least keep them in the lore somewhere and not just can the idea all together. the fact they didn't means GW never cared.

[Googledebunker]

Originally posted by Xlax:

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/1br0nv8/gws_1987_female_warrior_gabs/

Female space marines were a thing being sold by GW in the 1980's the main reason why they stopped is because they didn't sell well. Tabletop games during the 80's and 90's were mostly played by men, since men didn't want to buy those figures they stopped producing them. The real reason for there not being female space marines and Astartes is because there wasn't a market for them then, like there is now. They used the "lore" to justify the reason why they couldn't afford to produce figurines of female models.

many of us know this, but it is written in the lore now as well. Not like they don't retcon ♥♥♥♥, but consistency and building on said consistency is what makes a product better. There have been plenty of stupid and rage inducing additions. Latest of which is female custodes because of stupid ass amazon wanting stronk womyn who don't need no man or power armor

I would imagine that given their sterility, and heavily bio-engineered bodies that they would opt for not having any genitals. Especially with how effective their bio-engineered bodies use energy, and clean chemicals they would probably have waste removed strictly through the anus.

We have a saying in my village: "If you don't use it, you lose it." So it only makes sense that it would be removed after they reroute waste from the kidneys into the bladder, and other secondary organs. Would also explain why their leg armor is form fitting too.

[Narky]

Originally posted by Dagoth Ur:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

This is quite literally a big fact dump.

I'd also like to mention that Alan Merrett, who had worked with GW for 36 years and was the primary "fixer" of the company, pretty much supported this by saying the only reason there were no female space marines wasn't for a lore reason.

It was purely because the models at the time were not selling.

Emphasis, he said "female space marines".

Not 'prototype Adepta Sororitas' (as I've seen that argument thrown around based on speculation a few times).

Once again i'll ask, are you stupid or just stupid? if female space marines where so important and GW wanted them why bother removing them completely from the lore if they wanted them that badly they would have a least keep them in the lore somewhere and not just can the idea all together. the fact they didn't means GW never cared.

Please keep the discussions civil, thanks. But as you've disclosed nothing but hostility, I think I'm going to save us the time and block you and move on.

[Knight of Storms]

Originally posted by Eidrog:

Originally posted by General Grievous:

Representation of strong females has never been neglected in 40K. We have Sisters of Battle, Sisters of Silence and females in every other fighting branch, be it Guard, Navy, Inquisition, you name it.

Yeah, I've been a fan of the franchise for decades as well. And while I'm not bothered by the inclusion of female astartes, I certainly understand people's reason for concern -- particularly when you see what is happening to other popular franchises.

I suppose the current 40k offering for 'power-armored women' does leave a little bit to be desired. We have:

Sisters of Battle: Nuns with guns in tight, form-fitting armor.
Sisters of Silence: Elite Warriors, but DO NOT speak (I see why this could upset folks)
Inquisitors can wear power armor -- but they're still just regular humans.

There's no real 1-to-1 parity with the Astartes for female characters in the 40k universe.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 40k universe, so this has never really bothered me. But I am equally not bothered by giving the girls cool toys to play with as well. (Ie: female Custodes and Astartes)

More often than not, you just don't see many females in WH40K. Not when it's just passing a book cover, a minatures magazine, a poster on the wall. So there's the image, the perception. The isreali's are outnumbered and backed against a wall on all sides, and they use their females for soldiers just like the imperium does. But the thing is, this version of humanity has the super tech to make anyone into a super solder. it's just little lore points or matters to make units feel different, and not steal the thunder of the main units, the space marines, that causes most units to be weaker. Think about a female chapter, or just integration. Other than a different voice how may do you even see anything indicating they are female through all that armor? Unless ahero unit was stylized of course. And one or two officers who's heads are visable? I think it's really people with a 'boys club' fantasy, or mindset, because in the greater scope of things having female space marine means nothing and if they would have ADDED this back in the 80's or 90's you'd have half or less the rage and opposition we have now. (I say added because that's what it is, it' not changing all space marines to women or saying men cant be marines. some destructive high level change that people are making it out to be. Add= ok, change= bad. Ooo, so bad, tsk tsk.)

Edit:Ha, but someone says they had female units back in the 80's and the only reason they removed them was the models didnt sell well. Which could have been poor quality or bad game stats or Joe's just buying more imodels nterested in the beefcake than the cheesecake. So yeah, just a financial call, no great outcries of injustice and such. Go figure.

[Narky]

Originally posted by Knight of Storms:

Originally posted by Eidrog:

Yeah, I've been a fan of the franchise for decades as well. And while I'm not bothered by the inclusion of female astartes, I certainly understand people's reason for concern -- particularly when you see what is happening to other popular franchises.

I suppose the current 40k offering for 'power-armored women' does leave a little bit to be desired. We have:

Sisters of Battle: Nuns with guns in tight, form-fitting armor.
Sisters of Silence: Elite Warriors, but DO NOT speak (I see why this could upset folks)
Inquisitors can wear power armor -- but they're still just regular humans.

There's no real 1-to-1 parity with the Astartes for female characters in the 40k universe.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 40k universe, so this has never really bothered me. But I am equally not bothered by giving the girls cool toys to play with as well. (Ie: female Custodes and Astartes)

More often than not, you just don't see many females in WH40K. Not when it's just passing a book cover, a minatures magazine, a poster on the wall. So there's the image, the perception. The isreali's are outnumbered and backed against a wall on all sides, and they use their females for soldiers just like the imperium does. But the thing is, this version of humanity has the super tech to make anyone into a super solder. it's just little lore points or matters to make units feel different, and not steal the thunder of the main units, the space marines, that causes most units to be weaker. Think about a female chapter, or just integration. Other than a different voice how may do you even see anything indicating they are female through all that armor? Unless ahero unit was stylized of course. And one or two officers who's heads are visable? I think it's really people with a 'boys club' fantasy, or mindset, because in the greater scope of things having female space marine means nothing and if they would have ADDED this back in the 80's or 90's you'd have half or less the rage and opposition we have now. (I say added because that's what it is, it' not changing all space marines to women or saying men cant be marines. some destructive high level change that people are making it out to be. Add= ok, change= bad. Ooo, so bad, tsk tsk.)

That's in part why whether a fighting force in 40k being either male or female is largely a moot point for me—in this case, the Custodes for example.

Because we know they're handcrafted on the molecular level, they're master pieces designed to be practically perfect. Whoever they were before doesn't matter - whether they were a boy or a girl means squat.

They will still rinse through a dozen Space Marines and even more lesser foes with minimal effort. They have access to adrathic weapons which are budget versions of Necron Gauss Flayers.

A galaxy-spanning empire whose elite fighting forces are literal transhuman (superhuman) demigods, an empire that literally doesn't care if you're male or female. If you can pick up a gun and fight for humanity, you're as good as any other. Even better if you're outfitted with better armory.

[Narky]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

Just going to leave this here...

Florence Lawrence (born Florence Annie Bridgwood; January 2, 1886 – December 28, 1938) was a Canadian-American stage performer and film actress. She is often referred to as the "first movie star", and was long thought to be the first film actor to be named publicly[1] until evidence published in 2019 indicated that the first named film star was French actor Max Linder.[2] At the height of her fame in the 1910s, she was known as the "Biograph Girl" for work as one of the leading ladies in silent films from the Biograph Company. She appeared in almost 300 films for various motion picture companies throughout her career.

Even when they derail they are inaccurate.

Just say no to female space marines!

Strangely after 1661, when it was made legal for women to act! Thanks for that tidbit that correlates with and after a major historical fact!

[Googledebunker]

Originally posted by WastingSanity:

Just going to leave this here...

Florence Lawrence (born Florence Annie Bridgwood; January 2, 1886 – December 28, 1938) was a Canadian-American stage performer and film actress. She is often referred to as the "first movie star", and was long thought to be the first film actor to be named publicly[1] until evidence published in 2019 indicated that the first named film star was French actor Max Linder.[2] At the height of her fame in the 1910s, she was known as the "Biograph Girl" for work as one of the leading ladies in silent films from the Biograph Company. She appeared in almost 300 films for various motion picture companies throughout her career.

Even when they derail they are inaccurate.

Now back on topic. Just say no to female space marines!

As someone else has already pointed out. the 1800's took place after the 1600's lmao.

Way to reinforce my point, then claim that I am wrong

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by Nosferatupac:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/1br0nv8/gws_1987_female_warrior_gabs/

Female space marines were a thing being sold by GW in the 1980's the main reason why they stopped is because they didn't sell well. Tabletop games during the 80's and 90's were mostly played by men, since men didn't want to buy those figures they stopped producing them. The real reason for there not being female space marines and Astartes is because there wasn't a market for them then, like there is now. They used the "lore" to justify the reason why they couldn't afford to produce figurines of female models.

GW would have made female Astartes and Space Marines the whole time if their initial models had sold as well as their male counterparts. GW is a business, they want to make money 1st.

It's simple enough, people want to play with women space marines so the company is going to make it so, therefore the God Emperor has made it a reality, and they will write in some lore to support this, just like every other conflicting bit of information that has come out about the 40k universe. He is God, he can do whatever he wants, that's the whole point.

Some of y'all seem to think everything is based on identity politics when it's just a company giving people a product they are asking for. You don't need to buy or play with the female space marine figurines, just play with the 30+ years of male space marine figurines you have amassed, and will continue to amass since they aren't going anywhere. Unless everyone stops buying the male space marines that is.

When a company starts selling a new product, that's them trying to make more money, it's not a political statement in itself, the marketing ultimately chooses the tone of how a product is sold. They aren't advertising the game as a "girl power" pander. The whole "anti-woke" crowd is stuck in 2016, when marketing companies have already changed their strategy. They know yelling "girl power!" isn't going to get them more customers, believe it or not but most people don't like to be overtly pandered to, they want a good quality product with more options.

Not considering customer feedback is just bad business.

It's amazing that a series about the far flung future, humans being genetically altered, new organs and chemicals used to change people into demi-gods, being able to learn and remember from eating other people/species, but a soldier having more estrogen is where some draw a hard line, because their immersion is broken? lmao.

This is quite literally a big fact dump.

I'd also like to mention that Alan Merrett, who had worked with GW for 36 years and was the primary "fixer" of the company, pretty much supported this by saying the only reason there were no female space marines wasn't for a lore reason.

It was purely because the models at the time were not selling.

Emphasis, he said "female space marines".

Not 'prototype Adepta Sororitas' (as I've seen that argument thrown around based on speculation a few times).

If female Space Marines make a come back, it will purely be because there is now a viable, big enough market for them.

[Edit] Alan Merrett's quote:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/female-space-marines-merrett-1.jpg

Honestly it's just absurd to imagine it any other way - can you picture GW thinking it'd be profitable to have a line of female Space Marines back in the day but NO someone there wants to write that they're all male into the lore for no particular reason, guess they can't make that money.

[Xenofang]

Originally posted by Zepulchure:

i dont see the problem with adding female astartes?

like seriously,, what is wrong with that, not from a woke perspective or any of that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, what is the actual problem? lore? so much ♥♥♥♥ has changed over the years anyway, i just hope they wont try to sexualise them, and just have them be females, in the same type of armor, doing the same stuff, just a different face and voice is literally all it should be.

No offense, but if you think that then you know nothing or very little about 40k lore... It has been set in cannon for years that only males can become Adeptus Astartes & even out of those boys at peak fitness and if they are genetically compatible to the Gene Seed of the Chapter trying to recruit them, most do not survive the training or the brutal surgeries and treatments to transform them in to Astartes. One of the key reasons is the key component for making an Astartes is the Gene Seed. This organ rewrites the host's DNA in line with the Primarch it came from. All the Primarchs are male. If there was a female Primarch then it would work, but there has never been one.

Also, the Gene Seed & the other chemicals used to create an Astartes are incredibly rare. Most males do not survive the process, so why would the Imperium waste their these very rare resources on candidates whose success rate would be far worse than the male candidates.

There is plenty of female representation in the Imperium. There are female Imperial Guard regiments, generals & admirals. There are plenty famous female Inquisitors, people whose authority is almost limitless to the point they can order the destruction of an entire planet. There is the awesome faction of all female religious zealots in power armor called the Sisters of Battle. They are pretty much space marines, but without the genetic enhancements. Same with the aliens, the Eldar factions have women alongside the men from the lowest rank soldiers, up to the elites and leaders of the factions.

The push for female Space Marines is entirely political, from anti-fans who do not care about the 40k setting. If someone is a fan of 40k, they enjoy 40k. Anti-fans don't, they demand the setting be changed to fit their political and moral values & cry every ist or phobe possible at people who dare complain about them pushing real world activism in to a fictional setting where it doesn't belong...

[SnuffSaid]

Originally posted by Xenofang:

Originally posted by Zepulchure:

i dont see the problem with adding female astartes?

like seriously,, what is wrong with that, not from a woke perspective or any of that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, what is the actual problem? lore? so much ♥♥♥♥ has changed over the years anyway, i just hope they wont try to sexualise them, and just have them be females, in the same type of armor, doing the same stuff, just a different face and voice is literally all it should be.

No offense, but if you think that then you know nothing or very little about 40k lore... It has been set in cannon for years that only males can become Adeptus Astartes & even out of those boys at peak fitness and if they are genetically compatible to the Gene Seed of the Chapter trying to recruit them, most do not survive the training or the brutal surgeries and treatments to transform them in to Astartes. One of the key reasons is the key component for making an Astartes is the Gene Seed. This organ rewrites the host's DNA in line with the Primarch it came from. All the Primarchs are male. If there was a female Primarch then it would work, but there has never been one.

Also, the Gene Seed & the other chemicals used to create an Astartes are incredibly rare. Most males do not survive the process, so why would the Imperium waste their these very rare resources on candidates whose success rate would be far worse than the male candidates.

There is plenty of female representation in the Imperium. There are female Imperial Guard regiments, generals & admirals. There are plenty famous female Inquisitors, people whose authority is almost limitless to the point they can order the destruction of an entire planet. There is the awesome faction of all female religious zealots in power armor called the Sisters of Battle. They are pretty much space marines, but without the genetic enhancements. Same with the aliens, the Eldar factions have women alongside the men from the lowest rank soldiers, up to the elites and leaders of the factions.

The push for female Space Marines is entirely political, from anti-fans who do not care about the 40k setting. If someone is a fan of 40k, they enjoy 40k. Anti-fans don't, they demand the setting be changed to fit their political and moral values & cry every ist or phobe possible at people who dare complain about them pushing real world activism in to a fictional setting where it doesn't belong...

This. And it is the exact same people on this forum wanting their politics injected into 40k, as it was on the Baldurs Gate 3 forum celebrating the success of their politics on that game. They really do just hop from franchise to franchise and IP to IP to disrupt things, the goal is just to ruin the fun and then bask in schadenfreude. This is why it's best to criticise their ideas while showing zero signs of emotion, it absolutely infuriates them when they don't get the desired reaction.

[Narky]

Originally posted by Xenofang:

Originally posted by Zepulchure:

i dont see the problem with adding female astartes?

like seriously,, what is wrong with that, not from a woke perspective or any of that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, what is the actual problem? lore? so much ♥♥♥♥ has changed over the years anyway, i just hope they wont try to sexualise them, and just have them be females, in the same type of armor, doing the same stuff, just a different face and voice is literally all it should be.

No offense, but if you think that then you know nothing or very little about 40k lore... It has been set in cannon for years that only males can become Adeptus Astartes & even out of those boys at peak fitness and if they are genetically compatible to the Gene Seed of the Chapter trying to recruit them, most do not survive the training or the brutal surgeries and treatments to transform them in to Astartes. One of the key reasons is the key component for making an Astartes is the Gene Seed. This organ rewrites the host's DNA in line with the Primarch it came from. All the Primarchs are male. If there was a female Primarch then it would work, but there has never been one.

Also, the Gene Seed & the other chemicals used to create an Astartes are incredibly rare. Most males do not survive the process, so why would the Imperium waste their these very rare resources on candidates whose success rate would be far worse than the male candidates.

There is plenty of female representation in the Imperium. There are female Imperial Guard regiments, generals & admirals. There are plenty famous female Inquisitors, people whose authority is almost limitless to the point they can order the destruction of an entire planet. There is the awesome faction of all female religious zealots in power armor called the Sisters of Battle. They are pretty much space marines, but without the genetic enhancements. Same with the aliens, the Eldar factions have women alongside the men from the lowest rank soldiers, up to the elites and leaders of the factions.

The push for female Space Marines is entirely political, from anti-fans who do not care about the 40k setting. If someone is a fan of 40k, they enjoy 40k. Anti-fans don't, they demand the setting be changed to fit their political and moral values & cry every ist or phobe possible at people who dare complain about them pushing real world activism in to a fictional setting where it doesn't belong...

As GW has stated, if they want to make changes, they will. Alan Merrett's official statement as to why there are no female space marines is that it is NOTHING to do with the Lore Incentive.

It was purely the fact that for the time, the models did not sell. The logistics simply didn't add up to continue producing and putting the female models out on shelves.

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/female-space-marines-merrett-1.jpg

Doesn't matter whether the conservative types cry about it or not—they're not the majority that makes up the 40k fandom.

If there ends up a market for Female Astartes, you can guarantee that as a company, GW is going to make it happen.