Hot take: UltraSmurfs are unironically the best legion

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

Let's all be honest with ourselves. Outside of complaining for the sake of complaining, feeding into the smurf meme, or getting sick of the oversaturation of the chapter, there isn't really that much to complain about.

- Best geneseed (most stable and intact)
- Has the best primarch in the lore (actually not stupid and a decent fighter). Also, not dead.
- Actually run and sustain planets without being a grimdark hellscape (relatively)
- Grimdark lore actually makes sense and doesn't feel shoe-horned. Eg, Calth

-Not the Marines malevolent.

[Jimmi Stixx]

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

引用自 Jimmi Stixx：

Were the Custodes tied up with the webway after Magnus blasted a warp hole in it killing millions?

Legions at the gates and demons poring into the webway connected to the throne room. Or had the gate been shut by Big E's golden ass and the webway abandoned at the point Horus arrived at Terra? Then the Custodes got their lunch break? Good to be in the union.

P.S. I thought the Emperor's Children were the bestest legion?

I think it’s tacitly admitted that the custodies make their final stand in the elder city and are barely holding out by the time the Emperor sallies out to push the demons back. Master of mankind basically ends at the point Draknyen gets launched into the portal, and the Custodes and Big E retreat and close the webway gate on the demons. Big just holds the door shut for the next 10k years.

"At the climax of the Horus Heresy, the Custodian Guard fought monstrosities without number, for those in the Traitor Legions powerful enough to reach the gates of the Imperial Palace were twisted body and soul by the baleful gifts of Chaos. A thousand victories were won by the Custodian Guard, but they all turned to ash when the Master of Mankind teleported aboard Horus' flagship, the Vengeful Spirit, at the height of the Siege of Terra. There, a strike force of Legio Custodes fought the fiercest of Traitors to protect their master and they BLEW IT!"

So I guess they just don't have a lot written about them at the Siege of Terra. There was a lot going on at the time that overshadowed what they were doing. Sanguinius' rematch with Ka'bandha at the gates for instance.

[Exocet]

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

Let's all be honest with ourselves. Outside of complaining for the sake of complaining, feeding into the smurf meme, or getting sick of the oversaturation of the chapter, there isn't really that much to complain about.

- Best geneseed (most stable and intact)
- Has the best primarch in the lore (actually not stupid and a decent fighter). Also, not dead.
- Actually run and sustain planets without being a grimdark hellscape (relatively)
- Grimdark lore actually makes sense and doesn't feel shoe-horned. Eg, Calth

-Not the Marines malevolent.

The main reason why warhammer fans are bored with ultras is some authors are usually making them op, in too many books. Also lorewise they wrote the codex astartes and they basically don't really respect it by the book. Hence facing an ultras player is frequently playing against a superior "know it all" smartass specialist in "do as I say but not as do".

I rather like the chapter anyway but salamanders for example (stable geneseeds, great warriors, great crafters and good regents) are more respected by other marine chapters and average humans the same.

[Hexagoros]

引用自 Jimmi Stixx：

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

I think it’s tacitly admitted that the custodies make their final stand in the elder city and are barely holding out by the time the Emperor sallies out to push the demons back. Master of mankind basically ends at the point Draknyen gets launched into the portal, and the Custodes and Big E retreat and close the webway gate on the demons. Big just holds the door shut for the next 10k years.

"At the climax of the Horus Heresy, the Custodian Guard fought monstrosities without number, for those in the Traitor Legions powerful enough to reach the gates of the Imperial Palace were twisted body and soul by the baleful gifts of Chaos. A thousand victories were won by the Custodian Guard, but they all turned to ash when the Master of Mankind teleported aboard Horus' flagship, the Vengeful Spirit, at the height of the Siege of Terra. There, a strike force of Legio Custodes fought the fiercest of Traitors to protect their master and they BLEW IT!"

So I guess they just don't have a lot written about them at the Siege of Terra. There was a lot going on at the time that overshadowed what they were doing. Sanguinius' rematch with Ka'bandha at the gates for instance. :blood_angels:

Long story short, bad stuff happened because the plot needed to advance along a certain trajectory.

There just wouldn't be a whole lot of plot if the Custodes had actually done their job and said "Yeah, no, sorry Emperor, but you're not teleporting aboard the Vengeful Spirit because we can't properly protect you if you do."

However, if we accept the plot at face value - as I suspect we are meant to - and then think over the matter critically as if we were 'in universe,' the Custodes should be facing a lot of very uncomfortable questions.

Not just about the Siege of Terra and the fight aboard Horus' flagship, but also about all of the many infiltrations of the Imperial Palace ever since.

[Jimmi Stixx]

So basically Custodes are the ultimate warrior but they have an impossible job. Babysit a god who will do whatever he wants anytime he wants and to make sure no one "bad" ever sets foot inside a palace the size of a continent. I doubt other forces would do any better.

Raven Guard > Ultramarines

Maybe a few geneseed issues now in days. Who doesn't have some issues from time to time?

Raven Guard have the best tactics and are not held back by the limited numbers imposed by the codex astartes. Can become near invisible. They had access to advanced sciences given exclusively by a very trusting Big E. They like to protect the little people. They have lot's of apothecaries. Lightning claws, beakies and jetpacks! It's an easy choice.

[Hexagoros]

引用自 Jimmi Stixx：

So basically Custodes are the ultimate warrior but they have an impossible job. Babysit a god who will do whatever he wants anytime he wants and to make sure no one ever sets foot inside a palace the size of a continent.

lmao XD

Pretty much!

Custodes: We are gods among men, but our task is impossible. For the Emperor.

[Panzerpanic]

No

-Rogal Dorn

[ParatrooperGR]

引用自 Hexagoros：

Long story short, bad stuff happened because the plot needed to advance along a certain trajectory.

Best summary ever.

The fundamental plot in Horus Heresy is threadbare and often outright foolish. Some of the writing "over it" has been sensational but no amount of talent can reconcile some of the glaring, fundamental contradictions.

On the matter of Custodes, as a story I offer Atharna and co's escape from the (vaunted) Vault in The Outcast Dead. For the less nerdy ones amongst us, the Vault is the greatest responsibility of the Custodes [edit: obviously after babysitting BigE] and is a combination higest-security-in-the-universe-jail and repository of all artifacts too dangerous/terrible/insert appropriate word here, that nobody in the universe should even know exist, let alone be able to steal. The escape of a captive Thousands Sons marine because he is, you know, psychic and... well... nobody knows how to deal with them... because... eeerm.... makes the whole Custodes operation seem more Gendarmes du St. Tropez (look it up children :) ) than the Emperor's Best.