Hot take: UltraSmurfs are unironically the best legion

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

Let's all be honest with ourselves. Outside of complaining for the sake of complaining, feeding into the smurf meme, or getting sick of the oversaturation of the chapter, there isn't really that much to complain about.

- Best geneseed (most stable and intact)
- Has the best primarch in the lore (actually not stupid and a decent fighter). Also, not dead.
- Actually run and sustain planets without being a grimdark hellscape (relatively)
- Grimdark lore actually makes sense and doesn't feel shoe-horned. Eg, Calth

-Not the Marines malevolent.

[Vara]

Most people often view Ultramarines as the Mary Sues of the 40k universe solely based on the fact they're the only chapter actually doing something in the setting while everyone else has been stuck fighting the exact same ork, eldar, chaos, or even tyranid invasion for the last thousand years or so.

Roboute Guilliman's backstory also gave him protection from the grimderping of the universe some years ago which made his character not seem like a pan banging idiot like everyone else.

[Demo]

hey im just a warhammer pleb and noob i don't have ultramarine fatigue yet, i have no problem singing "im blue dabade dabadae" for at least a couple more chapters in the series. (plus they dedicate tons of materials to other stuff, there's a rogue trader game coming out, adeptus mechanics game)

[Saref Gethovich]

The problem with Ultramarines is not with the chapter, lore or something else. The problem is with GW attitude about Ultramarines and other chapters as a result. Our blue boyz is literally a plug for every hole in the universe, and because of that other chapters simply don't have a screentime and a chanse to shine. Because why should we promote Salamanders or Imperial Fists if our Smurfs cand deal with anything?

[Bing Chillin']

You must not have read much lore if you really think they have the most 'stable' geneseed - a multitude of their Astartes fell to Tzeentch during the Heresy. Guilliman is also very, very flawed - he suffers from paralysis by analysis, and he doesn't really know how to operate on his own. He is constantly looking for The Emperor's approval, of which he never gets it due to him being a walking WMD and nothing more.

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

引用自 WardeN：

You must not have read much lore if you really think they have the most 'stable' geneseed - a multitude of their Astartes fell to Tzeentch during the Heresy. Guilliman is also very, very flawed - he suffers from paralysis by analysis, and he doesn't really know how to operate on his own. He is constantly looking for The Emperor's approval, of which he never gets it due to him being a walking WMD and nothing more.

1. Leave the hostility at the door unless you want to play with the other specials needs kids in the sandpit. If you're going to gatekeep, at least make sure what you're saying isn't painfully superficial.

2. It's canon that UM have the most stable gene-seed. Pointing out a few individuals who have turned to chaos says nothing to no-one. The Salamanders have entire chapters that have fallen to chaos. Variance. What we do know is that it holds the least genetic flaws.

3. Evidently not true since he's the only Primarch who actually decided to be proactive during the Heresy, building I.S, and holding the entire Imperium on his back, without any help from Big-E. You're pointing out his personal flaws as ad-homs to attack the UM's in both 30k, and 40k, and projecting Big E's god-like indifference and flanderizing Gulliman in the process. You call that a weakness, I call that character development.

[thunda]

Nothing inherently wrong with Ultrasmurfs, except the lack of any kind of taste you must have to choose to play them. Problem people have is that GW treats them as the poster boy marine faction and total Mary Sues

[Veteran]

You misspelled Salamanders.

VUKAN LIVES!!!
STOMP STOMP

[Ghaunt]

The Damned Legion is the best legion.......

[mayrc]

The most boring legion of all. Every legion is somewhat special.... except The Smurfs.

Theoritica: Smurfs where created to have a Legion without any real personality so everyone can easily identify with them regardless of his own personality.

Practica: Smurfs are reused in allmost every game since you dont have to make any special rules as they are the most generic of all Marines.

[Veteran]

引用自 mayrc：

The most boring legion of all. Every legion is somewhat special.... except The Smurfs.

Theoritica: Smurfs where created to have a Legion without any real personality so everyone can easily identify with them regardless of his own personality.

Practica: Smurfs are reused in allmost every game since you dont have to make any special rules as they are the most generic of all Marines.

I agree fully. Nothing wrong with the Ultramarines as a Legion but they are so overused and over represented in literally every single Warhammer 40K media that they have just become boring... We never get the Iron Hands, Raven Guard, White Scars, Salamanders, etc: in any Warhammer 40K game...

You'd think that with hundreds of different Space Marine chapters there would at least be unlimited options but nope. Everyone seems to always default to Ultramarines.

It's like wanting to go visit the USA and choosing NYC or LA...

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

I'm not disputing the UM's over-abundance in the lore, or in the Tabletop. And some writers have really run with the main character syndrome with characters like Ventris and Cato Sicarious. With that said, as said previously, the general fodder of the legion aren't mary sues, and are basically just broad spectrum warriors, jack of all trades, master of none. I think what makes them feel a little bit more OP in the lore recently, is because Gulliman is at there head. Primarchs are designed to be OP.

Unless you're the Lion. Dude woke up from a 10k old nap with a sore back and joint pain.

引用自 mayrc：

Theoritica: Smurfs where created to have a Legion without any real personality so everyone can easily identify with them regardless of his own personality.

Hard disagree. The obsession with analytics and practicals means that anyone with the capacity to predict their movements can lure them into traps relatively easily. Also, as the Lion also notes, Gulliman, and by extension his sons, are too preocupied with background interference in a fight and can't restrict their focus to one thing - that being combat.

引用自 Veteran：

You misspelled Salamanders.

VUKAN LIVES!!!
STOMP STOMP :devilskiss:

I would agree. But their Horus Heresy books are mostly mundane and pure drudgery. Vulkan is a boss.

[Veteran]

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

引用自 Veteran：

You misspelled Salamanders.

VUKAN LIVES!!!
STOMP STOMP

I would agree. But their Horus Heresy books are mostly mundane and pure drudgery. Vulkan is a boss.

I don't think we should disregard the Salamanders as a whole because of a bad writer.

[Alpharius Nox]

引用自 Daikuma：

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

Let's all be honest with ourselves. Outside of complaining for the sake of complaining, feeding into the smurf meme, or getting sick of the oversaturation of the chapter, there isn't really that much to complain about.

- Best geneseed (most stable and intact)
- Has the best primarch in the lore (actually not stupid and a decent fighter). Also, not dead.
- Actually run and sustain planets without being a grimdark hellscape (relatively)
- Grimdark lore actually makes sense and doesn't feel shoe-horned. Eg, Calth

-Not the Marines malevolent.

This is what I don't like about them. They're too "perfect" to the point of being less interesting for it. These guys are the "most space marine-y space marines", and aren't as colorful as some of the alternatives, so to speak. I don't hate them, I'd just rather play another chapter.

Exactly the way I feel about them, they are just too generic, and too predictable to be really interesting. The same reason I prefer Vegeta over Goku, or Batman over Superman. I prefer the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers over the Ultramarines, mostly because I find their lore more interesting.

[darth.crevette]

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

The Salamanders have entire chapters that have fallen to chaos.

Now this is news to me, I have never heard of any Salamanders successors falling to Chaos, nor do the various wikis mention anything about that. Closest are maybe the Black Dragons, who were being investigated by the Inquisition because of their mutations, but so far their actions are very much showing their loyalty to the Imperium.

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

引用自 darth.crevette：

引用自 Psychedelic Adventurer：

The Salamanders have entire chapters that have fallen to chaos.

Now this is news to me, I have never heard of any Salamanders successors falling to Chaos, nor do the various wikis mention anything about that. Closest are maybe the Black Dragons, who were being investigated by the Inquisition because of their mutations, but so far their actions are very much showing their loyalty to the Imperium.

It’s in the latest codex/arks of omen fluff. Some exerts about worlds coming under fire from Chaos aligned Black Templars and Salamanders. Granted it’s because of the new murder curse crap, but Salamanders have fallen to chaos before, albeit In small number.