Did the devs nerf the difficulty too hard?

[Pharis]

Is anyone else having very little trouble in most of their runs as of the recent patch? I feel like the ability to have two guaranteed green towers/garrisons at the start of every run is a little too strong. I tested this out with a few runs today, wanting to see how far I could get on self-imposed restrictions. I did a run where I limited myself to three structures, too easy with Divine Wind, Judgment and/or Great Cleanser.
I did a run where I restricted myself to exclusively using garrisons, too easy with Slashers and Repenters in the early game and Snipers in the late game.
I tried a run where I restricted myself to ONE structure slot and no One Man Army. It took a few tries, but I still felt like it was far too easy after getting a purple Repenters card early on. I only really struggled on Lust and Greed when they throw massive waves of enemies at you. The rest of the levels are a joke. Even on the final wave of Treachery, with JUST one garrison structure, the Holy garrisons that do AOE (I forget the name) were able to do enough damage along with a few utility actives slowing down the waves that I finished the run with 1200 shield points.

TL;DR I think the devs nerfed the difficulty too hard. They need to add more challenging waves of enemies to some levels, especially Anger and Fraud, maybe even Gluttony. I feel like those levels are ESPECIALLY easy if you use garrisons or high attack speed towers. There just aren't enough enemies to pose a threat, most runs.

[Pharis]

I did another one-structure-no-One-Man-Army run, this time I used the character Undefined so I couldn't rely on my ability to save me. It took two tries to beat the last level, once you get past Greed you're essentially home free. Yeah, I think the difficulty either needs to be adjusted, or the Devs need to add "Hard Mode" which could double the quantity of enemies or something, just to make it a LITTLE bit harder. I shouldn't be able to consistently win with one structure, and no ability. It just doesn't make sense.

[pi73r]

Yep, that's what happens when 90% of forums are crybabies lacking the skill and blaming it on the game (and the devs listening to those). The game was too easy to begin with. Now not only they didn't nerf the most OP strats but they gave new cards to make even more strats too strong. On top of that you can select your starting turrets which lets you get blue+ turrets easy on the first floor which is more than enough to make the run too easy. There's basically almost 0 rng you need to adapt to now.

[Twisted]

I'm finding the opposite since the update xD I won 95% of my runs before the update and now I lose 95%

[b00marrows]

Not sure yet, spent too long trying to force specific builds to appease the tasks.
lategame towers are strong, thats for sure. starting with 2 of them>? might be gamebreakingly easy.

[pi73r]

Originally posted by Twisted:

I'm finding the opposite since the update xD I won 95% of my runs before the update and now I lose 95%

How so? You literally get blue turrets right from the start. All you need to do now is just max dmg.

[NinjaFrog]

I could get a purple or gold turret in the first turn previously, so it's not that different really. It's just more certain to get one you actually want. But with more cards added to the mix it makes it again slightly harder to get the ones you're looking for mid-to-late game. Like I haven't seen the Garrison spawn rate cards in 6 games while trying to finish the challenges.

[Amrehlu]

Originally posted by pi73r:

Yep, that's what happens when 90% of forums are crybabies lacking the skill and blaming it on the game (and the devs listening to those). The game was too easy to begin with. Now not only they didn't nerf the most OP strats but they gave new cards to make even more strats too strong. On top of that you can select your starting turrets which lets you get blue+ turrets easy on the first floor which is more than enough to make the run too easy. There's basically almost 0 rng you need to adapt to now.

If you weren't starting with at minimum a T4 tower on your first turn before the patch, you were playing wrong. Except Greezy or whatever the ♥♥♥♥♥♥'s name is, that one was pretty limited. You could only start with up to T3 on that toon because you can only generate 90 gold on their first turn, T3 costing 60 and T4 costing 120.

The only thing in the game that was tough prior to the patch was Endless (which no one could hit the 200,000 without cheating) and Greezy could be a little annoying. This is not a game, nor was it ever, where you boast about how good you are at it. You're a sad little man if you think it was, it should be fun first with additional challenge being added once the core of the game is fun, and there was little fun to be had with how limited build options were prior to this patch. They have plenty of time and room to keep adding and changing things before really aiming at giving a proper, interesting, assortment of difficulty options.

[B the Self]

Contrary to what ? reroll your run until you have them? cringe man you people complain about anything for no reason

[Pharis]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to give choice of starting structures, I'm saying that I believe the difficulty needs to be adjusted to compensate for the benefit you receive by having them guaranteed from the get-go. It feels like they missed that, it messes up the difficulty curve by starting you further than you should be, and I think they ought to remedy that by either adjusting the difficulty or adding difficulty options.

I thought about it a little, maybe it could be as simple as adding a mode called "Overtime" where you get twice as many enemy spawns, harder wave patterns, and double enemy HP. Since nobody wants to work on the holidays, more sinners are desperate to escape, and they're more coordinated as well. I really think this would improve the game by adding an optional challenge mode for people who like the level design of Normal without the randomness of Endless.

[Darknuke]

I don't even take the second tower to start and I still win. I play that way so I can fast stack the one tower I took into a legendary. Taking one tower to start also allows me to sometimes not have to take a tower slot in round 2 if something better comes up, like an early luck.

[B the Self]

Originally posted by smuge lizard:

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to give choice of starting structures, I'm saying that I believe the difficulty needs to be adjusted to compensate for the benefit you receive by having them guaranteed from the get-go. It feels like they missed that, it messes up the difficulty curve by starting you further than you should be, and I think they ought to remedy that by either adjusting the difficulty or adding difficulty options.

I thought about it a little, maybe it could be as simple as adding a mode called "Overtime" where you get twice as many enemy spawns, harder wave patterns, and double enemy HP. Since nobody wants to work on the holidays, more sinners are desperate to escape, and they're more coordinated as well. I really think this would improve the game by adding an optional challenge mode for people who like the level design of Normal without the randomness of Endless.

you get the same result as restarting your run 20 times until you get it , why complain? now its not a chore

[LoneHer0]

What was nerfed with the normal mode though, I thought there was only changes for Endless?

The structure change just made it so you don't spend the first turn restarting over and over trying to combine cards since you just have such a lower chance for towers as you play.

[Pharis]

Originally posted by LoneHer0:

What was nerfed with the normal mode though, I thought there was only changes for Endless?

The structure change just made it so you don't spend the first turn restarting over and over trying to combine cards since you just have such a lower chance for towers as you play.

I think being able to start with two green structures is better than what you would have started with before. Especially 'cause you can plan your "build" before you even start the game, which isn't a bad thing necessarily, I just think that maybe it'd be better to start with white towers rather than green ones. It feels like there's no challenge or danger to the first level Limbo as a result. You always get a good start. It's like if in the Binding of Isaac you'd ALWAYS get a quality 4 item in the first treasure room. If you wanted to install a mod to give you that or reset over and over until you got one, there's nothing wrong with that, it just makes me feel let down that it's kinda forced on you.

To people saying "before you would just reset until you got good structures" I agree, that was frustrating, especially when doing tasks, but I want to be able to improvise, too. I don't think it's good game design that in order to feel challenged by a game I have to set up arbitrary restrictions for myself because otherwise every game is a cakewalk. I'm really not trying to flex, I only think that it would be a good idea to add a "hard mode" or buff the difficulty to compensate for the buff of always getting a good start.

[B the Self]

And I guess you don't even read your own topic replies because everyone has said so far that ut us pretty much the same as before , but let's ignore them all for the sake of your ego

Originally posted by NinjaFrog:

I could get a purple or gold turret in the first turn previously, so it's not that different really. It's just more certain to get one you actually want. But with more cards added to the mix it makes it again slightly harder to get the ones you're looking for mid-to-late game. Like I haven't seen the Garrison spawn rate cards in 6 games while trying to finish the challenges.

Let's ignore them

Originally posted by Darknuke:

I don't even take the second tower to start and I still win. I play that way so I can fast stack the one tower I took into a legendary. Taking one tower to start also allows me to sometimes not have to take a tower slot in round 2 if something better comes up, like an early luck.

[Pharis]

I don't know why you're so heated about this, but my point still stands, the game is too easy. Even if it weren't substantially "different" than before, it would still need an adjustment to the difficulty curve, in my view. Especially Anger and Fraud. I've never come even close to losing on those levels.