The REAL problem with the current grind

[Dortnose]

I'm a 45 year old gamer. I'm old and I've played countless MMORPGs.

This game has a solid base, but the grind is intolerable.

I've got 50 hours and I'm probably only half way to level 20 mining and forestry. I'm currently level 17 or so in both and I've spent dozens of hours getting that far. So I can only imagine getting to level 50 in mining or forestry is tens of thousands of hours, and the resources get more and more scarce as your progress, and your xp drops lower and lower so it just gets slower and slower and slower. Probably no one will ever make it to 50 unless they find a good exploit or bot program.

That does seem a problem in itself. It's just unrealistic to expect any player is going to play for tens of thousands of hours just to level a single skill. It makes Old School Runescape's grind look like nothing in comparison. This game doesn't have the additional content to support that sort of grind; not even close.

But the bigger problem, I think, is that you do so many tasks that give 0xp. For every few iron I collect for 40xp, I also need one coal, but the coal gives me 0xp and so it's just soul-sucking and demoralizing to gather coal.

You need skins from deer? zero xp. You need wool from sheep? zero xp. You end up getting no xp for the majority of your gameplay and it's very unsatisfying.

I guarantee very few players are getting past 20 mining. There just isn't enough content to support it, and the zero xp grind is really terrible.

This design *might* make slightly more sense with an auction house where you can buy and sell resources and avoid the grinds you really hate, but it definitely does not make sense currently where you have to do everything yourself.

[Dortnose]

Given how substantial/impossible the grind is, I think they should just make everything continue to give you xp indefinitely. There's really no reason not to other than the vain hope that people are going to play your game for tens of thousands of hours.

Realistically, this game should shoot for a 200 hour grind to max level. They would definitely retain more players for longer if the grind was realistic.

[OPX Sanji]

I can agree that changes are needed in a lot of ways, re-balancing of XP being a huge one, making skills more accessibly level-able, Dang, I would even say a better gear selection and level balancing on gear, so that we don't get a reward and then not use it for 2 levels lol
BUT an auction house will only cause inflation within the Player to Player economy that DOES already exist.

People buy and sell things from one another all the time, an AUCTION HOUSE will DROP the prices of lower tier items that are needed for those levelling processes...sure, BUT will cause the prices of higher tier items to inflate in return. Auctions never go as well as expected unless it is something ridiculously sought after.

People KEEP saying AUCTION HOUSE, that means a timer and bids.
That is asking people to fight over stuff.
What we need is a Global Player Market, and a list of base player sales prices for all items in game. List item/amount/price, 5% value of listing as list fee, just buying and selling.

[Player]

This is just nonsense.

This game doesn't have the additional content to support that sort of grind

Its the exact opposite, the game doesn't have additional content to support rapid leveling. That's why the grind is helpful so that people play the game longer with the grind.

Also who told you that you should be max level in an mmo crafting/gathering profession with a few hours of grinding?

I guarantee very few players are getting past 20 miningd

You can check how many people are what level through the leaderboards.

Also why would you want to gain exp from things you already outleveled, this is just weird imo. I see many games out there might be what you are looking for with rapid level increases and sexy ads. Good luck out there.

[Zethell]

I would be okay with the grind, IF the game had a shared storage for your alts.
That way you could do your crafting on 1 character and put the stuff in storage for your other characters.

Every single character I make needs to redo all the gathering/crafting leveling.. That's the biggest design flaw in this game.

[Jerry Pie]

Remember that Heartwood is in the beginning stages of Early Access! :)

We completely agree with the players who want the leveling process to be full of variety, but we aren't quite there yet. As new updates drop there will be more map expansions, quests, npcs, mechanics, etc.

We are using a method similar to WoW for our leveling process, where you only get experience for monsters who are within a certain level range. We also want each character to have their own skills (like in WoW). A game like RuneScape has different design philosophies, such as letting 1 character level every skill.

Because we prefer the WoW approach, it means that our soft level cap is somewhere in the mid 50's right now. As new updates drop the higher level mobs will allow you to level up further.

[Idgaf]

The grind is pretty brutal agreed, I have made it to 15 or 16 so far playing about 6hrs, 2hrs of that have been with another player and the exp was flying in, I think I grouped with them at level 10 and made it to 15/16 before i had to log off for the day, not bad tbh could be better of course.
I'm like the OP an old school gamer and have levelled hundreds of characters across hundreds of mmorpgs and its now a slog to endure... sometimes a total bore that puts me off the game entirely... not had this here yet as i only just began days ago and not played everyday so its still "fresh".

Hopefully we see improvements :)

[BarfingRainbows]

I like grinding - for example in both old school and new runescape i have a character that is level 99 in all skills. That said I echo peoples sentiments here, the problem with this game is that the grind doesn't give you any rewards and it is slower that other grindy games that have items at different tiers you can use so you see actual progress for your efforts. This game unfortunately has a lack of content and a reduction of xp gains on items you are forced to forced to gather, mine, etc. such as coal and other items. Someone needs to take a serious hard look at the system, look at the xp rates per hour and see what type of rewards you get for that gain. Stat values are equally skewed, but the skill grind issue is so terrible most players will quit which is a serious issue.

[Sparrtacus]

I like to set up a tent for a price and sell my goods

[Mzicari]

I agree with you, this grind sucks! Everything I need to level up some skills gives me zero exp, coal mining, rodent fur, soft fur from deer, which consumes me useful hours give me zero exp.
I'm a lvl 30 rogue, some level 26 monsters don't give me experience and yet they are still a threat and can kill me, I hate the way the game forces you to look for stronger enemies. I'm starting to regret playing.

[iLuvOrangeJuice]

whomp whomp

[lindsey797]

I agree, only gaining levels from killing monsters is grindy and slow. The quests are all tied to the levels so there's basically nothing to do but grind stuff to make other grinding less slow so you can reach the next level quest. Even with higher level mobs, it'll still be the same.

[Hiddengate]

Originally posted by Jerry Pie:

Remember that Heartwood is in the beginning stages of Early Access! :)
We are using a method similar to WoW for our leveling process, where you only get experience for monsters who are within a certain level range.



This is such a cop out answer, just because a bigger game is doing such a system doesn't mean its good. Many of us doesn't mind a good grind as long as we feel ever kill/harvest gives us incremental exp to our goal. The 0xp requirements for higher level grind is such an un-rewarding experience, it sucks all the motivation/fun out of the game.

The game doesn't need variety at the moment, what people don't want is to spend 10 hours mining 0 exp coal so they can get level 20 smithing. Runescape is one of the best grindy MMO's out there. Just copy their system.

Just saying a bigger game uses the same system without actually thinking about the benefits/cons of such a system is lazy way to cover over the complaints the community has.

Fix your system, the game has a lot of potential.

[kingkuma]

Originally posted by Hiddengate:

Originally posted by Jerry Pie:

Remember that Heartwood is in the beginning stages of Early Access! :)
We are using a method similar to WoW for our leveling process, where you only get experience for monsters who are within a certain level range.



This is such a cop out answer, just because a bigger game is doing such a system doesn't mean its good. Many of us doesn't mind a good grind as long as we feel ever kill/harvest gives us incremental exp to our goal. The 0xp requirements for higher level grind is such an un-rewarding experience, it sucks all the motivation/fun out of the game.

The game doesn't need variety at the moment, what people don't want is to spend 10 hours mining 0 exp coal so they can get level 20 smithing. Runescape is one of the best grindy MMO's out there. Just copy their system.

Just saying a bigger game uses the same system without actually thinking about the benefits/cons of such a system is lazy way to cover over the complaints the community has.

Fix your system, the game has a lot of potential.

early access mane

[Thorinox]

To my firm belief is that, yes, there are hundreds and hundreds of people with lvl50+ in some skills like mining, but I think 95% of those are bots. This game has been out for barely two years, and the grind for it is unbearable. Worst of all stuff like fishing, there is absolutely no way there can be hundreds and hundreds of people already getting that UNBEARABLE skill to 50+ already, its barely been 5 months or so. In the first few hours or more, I got to lvl8 fishing and I was done. But to sit there what would have to be 500+ hours would be insane.
When the game first came out, I was a week late on it, and the game was OVER RUN with new players trying to snag that exp to get to lvl20-23, and back then, you had to fight lvl17s or bosses in order just to get to 20 and bosses only to get to lvl23. Now the game as only a few hundred players at any given time it seems.

[Majestic]

Was tempted to try this but it seems like another dev with zero idea what they're doing and trying to go a route AAA games go. With the skill of a candystand dev.

Shame as there seems to be potential.