Real Traffic and World Colour should be easily purchasable DLC's

[Fizzybean]

Is that the plan for the future? It just feels so weird to have to go to a third party for these and pay more than the game (currently) costs for what appears to be some new textures and some different call signs. Did the dev behind this have to pay licensing fees or something? It just seems so out of step with the way every other game dev does things.

Like... honestly I WOULD pay 30 bucks for these (if there's no other choice) but ALSO they're reportedly a pain to install and don't work on every airport. It just makes the whole Tower! Simulator 3 package feel like this beautiful, shiny Ferrari but with one wobbly wheel made of poorly chiselled stone. What the Denali, Field Air, Leslie, White Sands is going on there??

[srosdo]

From what I know the reason of WT&WC not being sold on Steam is for legal reasons and that will probably not change in the future.

When buying it, you get the real companies (liveries and call signs) as well as captures of real world schedules. Buying the product is a one time payment only and after that all updates are for free.

You can either update the product using the portal software from FeelThere (if you bought the product through them) or using NyergesONE (the portal software used by Nyerges Design).

When a new airport is released by FT or ND, WT&WC is updated as well and then it's best to first install the new airport and then update WT&WC.
This way the product will always work with the latest update.
In case you buy an earlier released airport and at the time of buying there isn't a new version of WT&WC, then you have to uninstall the product (can easily be done using the portal software) and install it again.

[Fizzybean]

Thanks for taking the time to respond :) What a mess eh? Oh well, to be honest I've been using Denali, Magic etc. for so long I'm starting to believe they're real airlines hehe

[srosdo]

I have no knowledge what those legal reasons could be.
On Discord the question is often asked if WT&WC will come to Steam and the answer is no with the reason being given: legal reasons

[Chaezaa]

Originally posted by Trancendental:

Originally posted by srosdo:

From what I know the reason of WT&WC not being sold on Steam is for legal reasons and that will probably not change in the future.

What specifically are the "legal reasons"?
I see many worldwide real liveries on sale in the marketplace for Flight Simulator 2020, made by small teams with no legal problems using real liveries, through steam.
If they can do it, why not FT/ND?

The marketplace of FS2020 is owned by Microsoft so they can do whatever they want with their own platform. Maybe Steam/Valve doesn't want unlicensed content to be sold on their platform.

Another point is that traffic and colour is owned by ND and not FT so it's up to ND to decide if they want their content on Steam or not. Keep in mind that Steam is taking a cut from all sales on their platform and maybe ND doesn't want that.

[lilla_FeelThere]

We are unfortunately not able to comment on this anything else, or give you any more details that what we already have. World Traffic and Color is not our product. It is an add-on to our product, which the developer will / could decide where to sell and how, we have no say on that. We do not sell such third party add-ons on or through our Steam account. Nyerges can (not sure if they can) open their own Steam store account and sell it there as an add-on or through our workshop probably, which I am planning to open, as our SDK is available, and maybe people would make content on their own and make it available on workshop. Maybe even color and traffic.

[Fizzybean]

Wow thanks for replying. That makes a lot more sense now :)

[yungfu9356]

B777 tail shape (APU) are error and passenger airliners cargo door are not on the left side of tha planes. (world traffic and world colour's bugs.)

[srosdo]

Originally posted by yungfu9356:

B777 tail shape (APU) are error and passenger airliners cargo door are not on the left side of tha planes. (world traffic and world colour's bugs.)

Please report these bugs on the Discord server of Nyerges Design, as they are making and selling the product.

[yungfu9356]

ok!

[Atova]

Originally posted by lilla_FeelThere:

We are unfortunately not able to comment on this anything else, or give you any more details that what we already have. World Traffic and Color is not our product. It is an add-on to our product, which the developer will / could decide where to sell and how, we have no say on that. We do not sell such third party add-ons on or through our Steam account. Nyerges can (not sure if they can) open their own Steam store account and sell it there as an add-on or through our workshop probably, which I am planning to open, as our SDK is available, and maybe people would make content on their own and make it available on workshop. Maybe even color and traffic.

How do you feel about them selling add ons for your game at almost the same price? Who is the developer of those products?

You create the game with all the technical know-how, charge a price for it and they just create liveries, traffic and then charge the same amount? Something feels very wrong about all this. If I spent the time creating a product to sell, then another company came along, made some flashy visuals and charged the SAME amount I would be fuming.

Edit: They also announced the day before on their facebook page (12th December 2022) that they had all the colours and traffic ready for release on the 13th December 2022...so you must work with them behind the scenes. Do you receive some of the profits from their work?

[Chaezaa]

Originally posted by Atova:

Originally posted by lilla_FeelThere:

We are unfortunately not able to comment on this anything else, or give you any more details that what we already have. World Traffic and Color is not our product. It is an add-on to our product, which the developer will / could decide where to sell and how, we have no say on that. We do not sell such third party add-ons on or through our Steam account. Nyerges can (not sure if they can) open their own Steam store account and sell it there as an add-on or through our workshop probably, which I am planning to open, as our SDK is available, and maybe people would make content on their own and make it available on workshop. Maybe even color and traffic.

How do you feel about them selling add ons for your game at almost the same price? Who is the developer of those products?

You create the game with all the technical know-how, charge a price for it and they just create liveries, traffic and then charge the same amount? Something feels very wrong about all this. If I spent the time creating a product to sell, then another company came along, made some flashy visuals and charged the SAME amount I would be fuming.

Edit: They also announced the day before on their facebook page (12th December 2022) that they had all the colours and traffic ready for release on the 13th December 2022...so you must work with them behind the scenes. Do you receive some of the profits from their work?

The key point is that Traffic and Color is working for ALL airports which are released for TS3. There is no additional cost for future aiports and updates.

The system for the prequel Tower3d pro was more expensive because you had to buy it for every single airport individually.

[Atova]

Originally posted by Chaezaa:

Originally posted by Atova:

How do you feel about them selling add ons for your game at almost the same price? Who is the developer of those products?

You create the game with all the technical know-how, charge a price for it and they just create liveries, traffic and then charge the same amount? Something feels very wrong about all this. If I spent the time creating a product to sell, then another company came along, made some flashy visuals and charged the SAME amount I would be fuming.

Edit: They also announced the day before on their facebook page (12th December 2022) that they had all the colours and traffic ready for release on the 13th December 2022...so you must work with them behind the scenes. Do you receive some of the profits from their work?

The key point is that Traffic and Color is working for ALL airports which are released for TS3. There is no additional cost for future aiports and updates.

The system for the prequel Tower3d pro was more expensive because you had to buy it for every single airport individually.

Appreciate the reply but didn’t really answer anything I asked. The key point for me is that it’s scandalous that a third party is charging the same amount as the game for cosmetics. The fact they had the audacity to charge additionally on the previous game is absolutely criminal.

I can’t believe FeelThere would be happy about this, which leads me to believe this is some sort of cash grab and they are linked with Nyerges.

I don’t know what these “legal reasons” are but it smells fishy, why exactly can’t FT comment on them when it’s ND selling them?

[Chaezaa]

Originally posted by Atova:

Originally posted by Chaezaa:

The key point is that Traffic and Color is working for ALL airports which are released for TS3. There is no additional cost for future aiports and updates.

The system for the prequel Tower3d pro was more expensive because you had to buy it for every single airport individually.

Appreciate the reply but didn’t really answer anything I asked. The key point for me is that it’s scandalous that a third party is charging the same amount as the game for cosmetics. The fact they had the audacity to charge additionally on the previous game is absolutely criminal.

I can’t believe FeelThere would be happy about this, which leads me to believe this is some sort of cash grab and they are linked with Nyerges.

I don’t know what these “legal reasons” are but it smells fishy, why exactly can’t FT comment on them when it’s ND selling them?

"is charging the same amount as the game for cosmetics"
Well, do you want to pay 10 bucks per airport or 50 for all airports? 50 isn't much compared to the amount of airports. You don't need to buy it if it's too expensive for you because the game works without it.

You have another company which is selling an addon for the game. There is nothing crazy or fishy about it. Just look at 3rd party content for flight simulators where it's "normal" to have expensive addons.

[lilla_FeelThere]

Honestly, I don't understand what is fishy about it? If I may, can you explain?
We develop MSFS scenery as well besides the Tower! simulator, and there are thousands of add-ons created daily for it, each with it's own pricing model, which the dev decides on, and they are not getting told by Microsoft how to do their pricing or developments, it is all up to the actual dev. Just like Justflight's Traffic product, exactly the same as NYD World Traffic.

Also what kind of details are there about a professional relationship between FeelThere and Nyerges Design that we should publicly discuss further? I'd be very happy to chat with anyone and tell some "tales" and insights about our family business, so you get to know more about US (FeelThere team) and how we built this company from zero in the past 20 years, but Nyerges Design is not part of the FeelThere team, and instead of us, maybe you could just ask the same from them on their forum?

Again, I'd be very happy to chat anytime, so please don't take this wrong way, I believe this Steam forum is not the right place for it. Maybe next year we see you at the FS expo, grab a drink and talk ;)

[Atova]

Originally posted by lilla_FeelThere:

Honestly, I don't understand what is fishy about it? If I may, can you explain?
We develop MSFS scenery as well besides the Tower! simulator, and there are thousands of add-ons created daily for it, each with it's own pricing model, which the dev decides on, and they are not getting told by Microsoft how to do their pricing or developments, it is all up to the actual dev. Just like Justflight's Traffic product, exactly the same as NYD World Traffic.

Also what kind of details are there about a professional relationship between FeelThere and Nyerges Design that we should publicly discuss further? I'd be very happy to chat with anyone and tell some "tales" and insights about our family business, so you get to know more about US (FeelThere team) and how we built this company from zero in the past 20 years, but Nyerges Design is not part of the FeelThere team, and instead of us, maybe you could just ask the same from them on their forum?

Again, I'd be very happy to chat anytime, so please don't take this wrong way, I believe this Steam forum is not the right place for it. Maybe next year we see you at the FS expo, grab a drink and talk ;)

When it comes to the world of FS in general, I don’t know very much about it all with the pricing models and such. I have seen that some MSFS are expensive but offer a lot of detail when it comes to the flight of the aircraft and such.
All I am doing here is looking at what’s in front of me. A game which is good but has this extra third party DLC which is the same price as the base game.
I really don’t mean to be difficult with this, I’m just trying to understand it. Let me try to be clear:

FeelThere:
Created the game along with all the content, airports, airport schedules, plane models, plane animation, sound, pathfinding and everything else that comes with designing a game. All this work you have done and have priced at around £45 ($59.99 on website). Fair enough, maybe a little expensive to what it is and very similar to the previous game but fair enough.

Nyerges Design:
Coloured in the planes (which I imagine is mostly the same from Tower!3D Pro), added the traffic and schedules along with the real names of the airlines. Priced at $44.99.

My question is, do you really think that ND deserve to price their product at almost the same value as yours? Not only that but you promote it on your website. I understand it is great to support creators and want to have relationships with others but the pricing for me is the abnormality.
If I created a new car, designed all the parts to it, tuned the engine and charged £10,000 for it, then, someone took my car, painted it and then sold it for £9,999 I would be up in arms about it.

Also, I just looked into JustFlight Traffic, and I don’t think you can give them a fair comparison? Are you comparing this:

https://www.justflight.com/product/fs-traffic-microsoft-flight-simulator

to this:


World Traffic by Nyerges Design
• Easy installation
• over 130 true to life aircrafts included with animations
• Accurate terminal layout
• future updates will get added for most airports

Because JF seems to offer a lot more for a reasonable price.

I do think this is the right place for this discussion though as a lot of people interested in the game are getting turned off by the pricing and looking at SteamDB the numbers aren’t great. Releasing airport DLC to the point buying everything would come close to £300 while alienating any newcomers to the genre doesn’t seem like the best move for such a niche market.