Which characters do you think could use some buffs?

[Cullen]

Now that the game has been out long enough, I think people are getting a good sense for which characters have the easiest time beating the game. I don't really think the dominant characters should be nerfed since success is very dependent on knowledge of the game and how to work their advantages, but I do feel a couple members of the cast are almost indisputably less good choices and could probably stand to get an extra perk or too.

So far the characters I think who could use some reworks the most are Levi and Karin. Levi currently just has very crappy backstory choices mixed with mediocre perks. The most notable thing about him is the ability to start with 125 Body, which both Marcoh and O'ssa can do and bring a lot more to the start of the game from their backstories. Gunslinger is his only unambiguously good perk, giving the somewhat undertuned Lugr the crippling aspect of the rifle. Gun mastery doesn't give enough of a boost to accuracy to let Levi reliably land headshots or anything, Executioner doesn't seem to do anything except maybe take out a couple of mini bosses more efficiently with the trenchgun, and Marksmanship depends entirely on RNG. I definitely think he could use a perk that allows him to craft ammo or find it more reliably or in greater quantities. This would give him a more complacent role as the gun user of the game. Marksmanship could stand to be more reliable, maybe like if it doesn't kill on the first two shots, it'll definitely kill on the third. This would make it a legitimate upgrade from how rifles normally work, taking 4 shots to kill enemies. Not sure what I'd recommend for Executioner, having it make Trenchguns a one hit kill would be nice but that also could be broken depending on how much shotgun ammo you get throughout the game.

For Karin, she just has a very lame spread of things she can grab from her backstory and perks that cease to be useful once you get past the Church. Persuade/Diplomacy gives you free turns on early game enemies and then does nothing once you start fighting stuff like Crimson Fathers and Half-Cocooned. Lockpicking is very useful in Old Town and then just isn't a factor in the back half of the game. Escape Plan is always useful, but it depends on getting good item RNG to make the most of it for escape cheesing fights. At least she doesn't have the chance to suffer a heroin addiction, but it would be nice if her backstory let her get a perk or two outside of her Hexen and if she was able to start with lockpicking.

What are your guys' thoughts?

[Mauman]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Starfish:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Mauman:

No.....NO. Marina is currently the most busted character in the game. ESPECIALLY as the MC. She might have a slightly bumpy beginning but once that ball get's rolling it's downright stupid.

Meditation can't compete with perks from other characters

I disagree with everything you said, but this in particular blows my mind.

If that's what you think, than so be it. But you're wrong.

[Starfish]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Cullen:

I'd say the ability to start with Necromancy is decently strong at least, lets her throw up some meat shields right at the start and quickly max out Gro-goroth, plus she can get Blood Golem for one less soul stone. Not so sure about her as a companion, it's hard to get her to stick around any longer than engraving your current line up if you didn't save Henryk. The only time she's ever stuck around for me when recruiting her at the manor was when I was playing as Levi and I have no idea if that's intentional or if it was a one time bug.

You can still recruit her if you don't recruit Levi, but since it's companion Levi with heroine addiction...who cares. But you are right, she has a strong early game and is probably what I will use if a save everyone ending come out.

though Gro-goroth affinity is really easy to max out, I blame blood sacrifice on that one.

but picking her as MC only gets you a strong early game, which is why I said she's Karin level, very useful but still got outclassed to the bottom half.

[Starfish]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Mauman:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Starfish:

Meditation can't compete with perks from other characters

I disagree with everything you said, but this in particular blows my mind.

If that's what you think, than so be it. But you're wrong.

that's my bad, thought you are taking about occultism, yellow mage perks are busted and make Levi looks like a joke.

[Cullen]

As far Maso mode is concerned, the fact that Marina is the only one who starts with the guaranteed ability to save makes her the best character by default. I honestly think Maso should extend the courtesy of starting everyone with the Fear and Hunger Bible and a piece of chalk to make it fair across all characters.

[Cullen]

Marcoh has a really good starting loadout, He can start with lockpicking and Escape Plan giving him full access to locked doors and good ability to run from battles. He can start with 12 agility meaning as soon as he hits Dr. Kefer's shop he can pick up double turns. Perfect guard is a great skill because it makes guard give you immunity to limb loss, so he can turtle on his starting turns completely safely and act on extra turns. When you can get to the Hexen, Counter Stance procs more Leechmonger healing and Adrenaline Rush is the physical equivalent of La Danse Macabre, although the modifiers aren't quite as bonkers.

[Mauman]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CuddilyWuddily:

I can beat normal mode solo with Karin or any other character. Normal mode is a joke if you know the game and if you do, all character starting advantages become irrelevant. Because everyone can get everything.

So judgement of character strength must come from their performance in Maso mode.

While I agree with you for the most part, I'm not going to judge characters based on Maso mode, because I HATE that mode.

It's not fun for me when the game goes that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :/

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Cullen:

Marcoh has a really good starting loadout, He can start with lockpicking

I prefer starting with steal, but that's just me.

[Cullen]

Steal's definitely superior if you know what to steal from, but I was more speaking in the context of Maso where lockpicking has more immediate use. It also let's Marcoh go into the sewers and just ignore old town completely if that's an approach you wanted to take.

Steal is absolutely busted though. Steal 10 rifle shells from Doppelganger Levi and still get the 5 he drops normally on top of that? Steal the friggin Bench Grinder from Abella at the start of the game and get the Meat Grinder immediately? Yes please.

[Mauman]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Cullen:

Steal's definitely superior if you know what to steal from, but I was more speaking in the context of Maso where lockpicking has more immediate use. It also let's Marcoh go into the sewers and just ignore old town completely if that's an approach you wanted to take.

Yeah, I gotcha.

Like I said though, I don't play Maso mode. It's just not fun for me.

[Mauman]

Yeah, Marco's got a really funny spread of abilities. Lockpick or steal and escape artist right off the bat. You could also take killing intent rather than escape artist, but why would you do that?

Never mind the ability to start with 12 agility (just need engrave or a small things amulet to get to the almighty 16+ agi), his perfect guard ability, or adrenaline rush (which combined with perfect guard does let you turtle most fights).

To my understanding (once again, don't play the mode but I have seen people talk about it) he's the best non-marina choice for maso mode.

[Starfish]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CuddilyWuddily:

Marina is the strongest character in the game. Anyone who beat Maso mode would understand that.

Anyone who beat Maso mode would also understand Olivia is a contender for second strongest character in the game.

Starfish doesn't seem to understand the power of turn 1 Black Smogs or turn 1 Rev3 double attacks which makes me think he has a very shallow understanding of the game.

I'm wasn't even talking about maso mode, and how do you get Rev3 double attack on turn 1? unless your first turn is turn 0.

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one then.

[Cullen]

Marina's Occultism skills let her start with rev points in battle, with Greater Occultism giving her two. Due to a quirk with how the Green Orb from spice forge works (Creating a turn at the start of the battle where the only thing that happens is the green orb spell gets used), she can start fights with 3 rev points and launch massively powered up spells from the word go.

[Starfish]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Cullen:

Marina's Occultism skills let her start with rev points in battle, with Greater Occultism giving her two. Due to a quirk with how the Green Orb from spice forge works (Creating a turn at the start of the battle where the only thing that happens is the green orb spell gets used), she can start fights with 3 rev points and launch massively powered up spells from the word go.

I thought there's a way to do that using just Marina's perk, oh well.

[Mauman]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Cullen:

Marina's Occultism skills let her start with rev points in battle, with Greater Occultism giving her two. Due to a quirk with how the Green Orb from spice forge works (Creating a turn at the start of the battle where the only thing that happens is the green orb spell gets used), she can start fights with 3 rev points and launch massively powered up spells from the word go.

Pav's first strike ability will also generate the 3rd rev point. Obviously not as good as having spice forge and it won't work on every fight, but it does work.

[Cullen]

And then there's the darkside of Spice Forge, where since it generates an extra turn at the start of battle, it also triggers end of turn effects from the enemy. Woe unto thee if you fail August's coin flip or don't have enough defense to tank a hit from Centaur.

[Oishii Gaming]

Tanaka needs a buff