Which characters do you think could use some buffs?

[Cullen]

Now that the game has been out long enough, I think people are getting a good sense for which characters have the easiest time beating the game. I don't really think the dominant characters should be nerfed since success is very dependent on knowledge of the game and how to work their advantages, but I do feel a couple members of the cast are almost indisputably less good choices and could probably stand to get an extra perk or too.

So far the characters I think who could use some reworks the most are Levi and Karin. Levi currently just has very crappy backstory choices mixed with mediocre perks. The most notable thing about him is the ability to start with 125 Body, which both Marcoh and O'ssa can do and bring a lot more to the start of the game from their backstories. Gunslinger is his only unambiguously good perk, giving the somewhat undertuned Lugr the crippling aspect of the rifle. Gun mastery doesn't give enough of a boost to accuracy to let Levi reliably land headshots or anything, Executioner doesn't seem to do anything except maybe take out a couple of mini bosses more efficiently with the trenchgun, and Marksmanship depends entirely on RNG. I definitely think he could use a perk that allows him to craft ammo or find it more reliably or in greater quantities. This would give him a more complacent role as the gun user of the game. Marksmanship could stand to be more reliable, maybe like if it doesn't kill on the first two shots, it'll definitely kill on the third. This would make it a legitimate upgrade from how rifles normally work, taking 4 shots to kill enemies. Not sure what I'd recommend for Executioner, having it make Trenchguns a one hit kill would be nice but that also could be broken depending on how much shotgun ammo you get throughout the game.

For Karin, she just has a very lame spread of things she can grab from her backstory and perks that cease to be useful once you get past the Church. Persuade/Diplomacy gives you free turns on early game enemies and then does nothing once you start fighting stuff like Crimson Fathers and Half-Cocooned. Lockpicking is very useful in Old Town and then just isn't a factor in the back half of the game. Escape Plan is always useful, but it depends on getting good item RNG to make the most of it for escape cheesing fights. At least she doesn't have the chance to suffer a heroin addiction, but it would be nice if her backstory let her get a perk or two outside of her Hexen and if she was able to start with lockpicking.

What are your guys' thoughts?

[Starfish]

Levi definitely needs a buff, though Karin is better than Levi in my opinion, which isn't saying much since it's Levi.

I would actually give Marina a buff as well if you pick her as MC, her only good skill is engrave which no doubt is very powerful, but there's little incentive to take her as a main character since you can get engrave anyways as companion. You can roll for any book you like which is very good, but the other perks are very meh, I put her on a similar level to Karin, maybe even less.

But Levi do need a buff as he's the worst character, aside from an ammo perk, maybe he should get a first shot perk if he enters combat with guns, it's not much but it's something.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Starfish:

Levi definitely needs a buff, though Karin is better than Levi in my opinion, which isn't saying much since it's Levi.

I would actually give Marina a buff as well if you pick her as MC

No.....NO. Marina is currently the most busted character in the game. ESPECIALLY as the MC. She might have a slightly bumpy beginning but once that ball get's rolling it's downright stupid.

[Feadship]

I wouldn't mind having MC Levi a passive with the chance not to consume ammo for each turn in combat. Or at least have it bound to the character so you couldn't attain it from his soul.

[Cullen]

Marina definitely requires a full understanding of the game to make use of, but she is easily one of if not the best once you know what story choices to pick and what to do.

In my mind what makes a less good character is they don't bring anything to the table you couldn't just get by killing them, and Levi and Karin definitely fall into this problem. Compare with characters like Marcoh who gets stat bonuses and two skills outside his hexen, O'ssa and Marina who can start with affinity for any god and skin bibles (and O'ssa can start with a ton of supplies and extra HP), Daan can start with loving whispers and full Sylvian affinity, Olivia can get right to work on storing up healing items and making unique attack items. Even Abella can at least start with everything she needs to make Sandman's Kiss which is a really good weapon. (Though on the whole I'd say Abella has more value as a recruit than an MC)

[ADarkRaccoon]

Abella should be tweaked as she is the only character able to go through the whole early game and even sometimes late game without even being touched once, either make more abilities for her or lower the DMG of the wrench toss and guarantee a stun instead.

Daan needs tweaks imo, as he is not a good MC and mostly just a support character because of the revival mechanism as the last ability, but he is good, just weird that he has this as his last ability.

Karin is broken, but she is supposed to as she needs you to know the game's knowledge, still, I think she would benefit from a lot of their skills, many characters would benefit with more choices on skills.

Levi as teammate and MC sucks, buff plz. Would be nice to have something like Spice Force or Levi as in Spice Guns to make guns act different with spices.

Marcoh is awesome and I think it's perfect tbh.

Marina might need more Magic Damage skills other than just more Rev and Engrave, either that or buff the Engraves as I don't see a point in not getting GOD OF FEAR AND HUNGER as Engrave.

O'saa is good, spice is almost META for any magic build though, would love if Marina gets something like Spice that would help magic users as well.

Olivia doesn't work, the condensed nettle and condensed hemlock is one of the lamest abilities to have as an end game skill, the only one that works in her whole kit would be poison and picking up Dark Root, but even then, you barely use those.


I guess I just want some characters to be more hype in playing with or in killing so you get awesome skills, like Levi being just useless, I let others kill him in the story so I don't have to and his mooschorched is just meh. . .

[Cullen]

Not really a buff per se but I would really like it if each character had slightly unique base stats. It seems kind of silly to have 8 characters and have them all be the same before you factor in equipment. Stuff like, Marcoh could have increased Attack but an accuracy penalty with guns in battle, Marina could have higher Magic Attack for lower Physical, Karin could have 12 agility instead of 10 but have lower defense. Stuff like that.

[y0rch1]

Levi and olivia are by far the weakest, Levi can skip his intro for a fairly good early game thats true, but it becomes boring to just skip the whole heroin thing, if there was an unique accessory or cool skill to exchange for the Heroin addiction other than the decent marksman or gunslinger perks you might consider actually playing debuffed levi. Olivia speed should be faster and maybe turning slower to compensate, because right now she has nothing but disadvantages, if you want to use her skills just kill her.

More than a buff I would like if every character had something more unique going for them that sets them apart to any other character just getting their soul, like Marcoh double punches, Marina Max affinity or O'saa having nashrah head. As it is now, you are much better picking Marina if you want to play mage or Marcoh if you want to be a fighter. Everything else is redundant because you only need their souls to get their skills. And I dont think nerfing Marina or Marcoh is the answer to the problem. Something like what cullen said. Levi should be a glass canon, karin a rogue, Abella a fighter, no need to follow the archetypes exactly as they are, but more variation between characters would be welcome.

[Cullen]

I think Olivia has a decent early game since she can immediately craft mixed herbs and actually do something with all the lavender you can get. She also is completely unaffected by her legs being disabled since she's paralyzed anyway, although the mechanic of being knocked out of her chair REALLY sucks. Still, she has plenty of margin for error in combat early on if you recruit Abella which is worth something at least.

And yeah, I definitely would love more unique aspects for each character independent of their Soul. Marcoh's double punches for instance gives him a unique advantage with taking the offense buffs from Gro-Goroth and his engraving since for an unarmed Marcoh that counts for double.

[Mauman]

Olivia as a companion is....kinda meh. She has nothing from her own skill tree and instead has a passive magic ability of dubious quality. It'd be nice if she actually had something from her own tree :/

Karin as a companion could use a tweak. Lockpicking is not as useful as it's made out to be as you can bash down most doors with 4 people and you'll have a giant supply of small keys for everything else. Don't know what I'd give her though. Magic makes little sense given her starting "flat earth atheist" position.

As I've said before, Marina doesn't need ♥♥♥♥. She starts with a skin bible of your choosing (with some save scumming) and some affinity for whatever god she wants. That's plenty strong. Especially once you get a few soul gems and get her meditation skills. As a companion, just having engrave is more than enough for her given how absolutely strong it is. Especially in a party of 4. She also starts with pyromancy which hit's surprisingly hard if you can find a cha-cha and/or death mask (it has a higher stat coefficient than most spells to make up for a lack of base damage).

Daan's ok. He can start with a heal which is a pretty big deal. I'm more concerned with the fact that choosing him would deny the player free mind refills (unless there's something I'm missing about the bar). Yeah, I know you can just sit around for a mind increase, but that takes time and food.

[Cullen]

Yeah Olivia as a companion is easily the worst, photosynthesis just doesn't do anything. Karin's lockpicking would be useful if at least someone could recruit her day 1. By the time you can get her, you've passed all the doors that are worth lockpicking and could probably just smash them if you were inclined to go back for them.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by Cullen:

Yeah Olivia as a companion is easily the worst, photosynthesis just doesn't do anything. Karin's lockpicking would be useful if at least someone could recruit her day 1. By the time you can get her, you've passed all the doors that are worth lockpicking and could probably just smash them if you were inclined to go back for them.

Maybe give Karin Pav's orders ability due to her bossy personality? :D

[Cullen]

I could definitely see that being thrown in as a backstory perk lol

[Mauman]

Makes me wonder what Orange is going to do if he makes other characters playable/recruitable to make them unique. My thoughts....

Pav - the shot first ability he uses, or maybe a quick-change ability so he can switch weapons without using a turn. Or both.

August - new weapon type (bow and arrows, maybe the ability to craft arrows so a non-Abella character can finally use those damned broomsticks). Bonuses against magical creatures.

Tanaka - uh....can't think of any COMBAT abilities for him, but he could start with that massive 35 shillings he has normally for stealing. Maybe add a haggling ability and the special privilege of getting day-1 access to the general store.

[Starfish]

Originally posted by Mauman:

Originally posted by Starfish:

Levi definitely needs a buff, though Karin is better than Levi in my opinion, which isn't saying much since it's Levi.

I would actually give Marina a buff as well if you pick her as MC

No.....NO. Marina is currently the most busted character in the game. ESPECIALLY as the MC. She might have a slightly bumpy beginning but once that ball get's rolling it's downright stupid.

I would have to disagree, affinity is not really a hard thing to get and she doesn't bring much to the table as MC except a book of your choice, she is also an very easy teammate to get, making engrave available to everyone. Meditation can't compete with perks from other characters, making her a very weak MC pick.

I did find her to be a really good rush character for saving some people day 1, but that's about it, as I said Karin level for MC pick.

[Cullen]

I'd say the ability to start with Necromancy is decently strong at least, lets her throw up some meat shields right at the start and quickly max out Gro-goroth, plus she can get Blood Golem for one less soul stone. Not so sure about her as a companion, it's hard to get her to stick around any longer than engraving your current line up if you didn't save Henryk. The only time she's ever stuck around for me when recruiting her at the manor was when I was playing as Levi and I have no idea if that's intentional or if it was a one time bug.