Suggestion Aircraft... High-speed strategic bomber.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

So, I'm a bit of a shameless fan of the B-1b Lancer, and while I'm definitely loving the vehicles in this game, I can't help but wish there was a second strategic bomber option as a mirror to the existing, 'slow but tough' Darkreach.


I present to you, the idea of the SFB-171 'Derecho'

The Derecho, like its namesake, is a fast moving 'storm' of a machine that rolls into a battlespace and unleashes absolute chaos.

Visually, I envision an aircraft that is an amalgamation (as are all the aircraft in this game) of planes similar in design concept.

- B-1b Lancer
- XB-70 Valkyrie
- TU-160 Blackjack
- SR-71 Blackbird

The exact way the amagamation would pull together would depend on the artist.


In terms of gameplay style. It is primarily a strategic bomber that is a mirror to the Darkreach. Where the former is slow, the Derecho is supersonic. Where the Darkreach is tougher, the Derecho is fragile, relying on speed instead of armor. Where the Darkreach has a very large weapons capacity, the Derecho has about HALF that.

The secondary role, something a bunch of vehicles seem to have, is actually pulled from gunships like the AC-130. While the Derecho has the standard strategic bomber options of a modestly large payload capacity, a player may choose to replace the loadout of the bomb bay with a 105mm, belly-mounted howitzer turret. This allows the Derecho to take on the gunship role inspired from such things as the 'Spectre Gunship' of C&C Generals. Imagine being the convoy on the ground when one of these comes screaming in, pulls into an orbit, swing-wings extending, and begins slinging shells into an area below it.

In terms of balancing against the Darkreach, the Derecho sports half the bomb capacity due to its narrow airframe. This means that while it is much more capable of deep penetration into enemy airspace, it sacrifices the ability to hit as many targets at once as the Darkreach. And while it is fast, it has two caveats that can and will keep it from doing nuclear blitzkreigs the moment it gets unlocked in a match.

The first, is that I wasn't kidding with the SR-71 and XB-70 inspiration. The Derecho would sport four powerful afterburning turboramjets. Which are inherently inefficient in fuel, but in afterburner, drink the Revoker under the table. A speed run in burner would consume an entire fuel tank crossing the game map twice (Once there, and once back). Meaning that there is no real margin for deviating if a player stays on the gas the entire way. Your primary defending move when engaged, is to just step on the gas and hope you out-sped your attacker, and/or out-ranged the missile he fired at you. An ancillary caveat of these massive afterburning monsters, is that the heat signature of the Derecho is pretty much 'what flares?'

The second, is that at extremely high speeds, the bomb bay doors will NOT open, to prevent the aircraft accidentally ripping itself apart. Sorry kids, no mach 3 nuclear strikes. This means that attack runs must be done after slowing down, leaving the Derecho vulnerable to interception at a critical juncture.

Between the fuel consumption and the limitation on attack profiles, the Derecho's primary weakness would be that a good air defense may not shoot it down, but would shoo it off, forcing it to RTB for refueling. All without actually being able to drop ordinance. (Okay, that fuel consumption rate may be a BIT of an exaggeration in sub-sonic flight, but you'll definitely be keeping one eye on the fuel guage when you kick in the blowers.)


Overall:

Pros:
- Amusingly appropriate name.
- Extremely Fast.
- Nimble despite strategic bomber size.
- Extremely Fast.
- Can switch roles to CAS with a loadout swap.
- Extremely Fast.

Cons:
- More fragile.
- Drinks fuel like a dwarf at frat party.
- Half-payload compared to Darkreach.
- Has a heat signature to rival the SUN.
- Cannot attack while in upper speed range.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by AdmiralTigerclaw:

'slow but tough' Darkreach.

... the Darkreach is tough?? I bring them down with the laser.

[MissNurseXochi]

I'd change a few things.

Pros:
- Super fast, can outrun most missiles at full speed
- Large load similar to the Darkreach
- Can forgo entire bomb load to allow for a full suite of sensors (reconnaissance only)
- Very high service ceiling

Cons:
- Guzzles fuel like a drunkard guzzles alcohol.
- Very bad maneuverability
- Massive heat signature, very loud, and highly visible to radar
- No chaff/flares
- Very fragile
- Extremely expensive
- No guns, only uses missiles for self defense

[Raubritter]

I don't know about the lower payload. The Darkreach is very small for a strategic bomber, somethng the size of a Tu-160 or Lancer should carry even more stuff IMO.

Aside from that I definitely agree, now that we have a large carrier-capapble fighter the only main type of combat aircraft we are missing are a large strategic bomber like the one you suggest, and maybe a fast interceptore like the Foxbat. Possibly a big strike fighter like the F-15e as well.

[Redeye 43]

I think, with the economy system, many of the cons can be abandoned in favor of just making it absurdly expensive. Having a functioning economy makes it possible to play around more, so my personal opinion would be:

Pros:
- SUPER FAST
- Enormous bomb load, BIGGER than the Darkreach with external pylons
- Drop the load for a CAS gun set
- Very high service ceiling, climbs like a demon to get there
- Enormous fuel capacity
- Somewhat stealthy
- Huge flare reserves, powerful jammer
- Fancy rearward nuke deployment system, like the A-5 Vigilante with its stores train

Cons:
- Absurdly expensive - multiple Darkreaches expensive
- Aforementioned external pylons destroy your RCS and make the jammer practically useless
- Terrible maneuverability, flying low is a gamble
- Very loud, gigantic heat signature makes flares practically useless in AB
- Falls apart if tapped
- No forward-facing guns (as if they'd be useful)
- ONLY the rearward nuke deployment system is usable at speed, conventional munitions are a no-go

The intent would be, in singleplayer at least, to make it so the enemy can only field one or two of them. I guess the problem would be that multiplayer would be a real pain, especially if everyone would try to jump on it all at once.

[MissNurseXochi]

Originally posted by Redeye 43:

I think, with the economy system, many of the cons can be abandoned in favor of just making it absurdly expensive. Having a functioning economy makes it possible to play around more, so my personal opinion would be:

Pros:
- SUPER FAST
- Enormous bomb load, BIGGER than the Darkreach with external pylons
- Drop the load for a CAS gun set
- Very high service ceiling, climbs like a demon to get there
- Enormous fuel capacity
- Somewhat stealthy
- Huge flare reserves, powerful jammer
- Fancy rearward nuke deployment system, like the A-5 Vigilante with its stores train

Cons:
- Absurdly expensive - multiple Darkreaches expensive
- Aforementioned external pylons destroy your RCS and make the jammer practically useless
- Terrible maneuverability, flying low is a gamble
- Very loud, gigantic heat signature makes flares practically useless in AB
- Falls apart if tapped
- No forward-facing guns (as if they'd be useful)
- ONLY the rearward nuke deployment system is usable at speed, conventional munitions are a no-go

The intent would be, in singleplayer at least, to make it so the enemy can only field one or two of them. I guess the problem would be that multiplayer would be a real pain, especially if everyone would try to jump on it all at once.

Sounds like that would be overpowered TBH. I'd stick with keeping it a high speed strategic bomber/recon aircraft only.

Also some of these planes are too fast for gun bullets IRL (you can find stories of really fast planes flying into their own bullets on YouTube).


Then make a smaller plane that can do CAS, kinda like the Ardvark

[Twelvefield]

One thing about great speed is that you run out of distance, solving for d in V=D/t. Meaning: the maps will need to be bigger. Good thing the dev is working on bigger maps, right?

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

One thing about great speed is that you run out of distance, solving for d in V=D/t. Meaning: the maps will need to be bigger. Good thing the dev is working on bigger maps, right?

Gonna' start pitying the Chicane pilots in that case.

But like I said in the OP, I'm a B-1b fan. I want to see something along those lines implemented. I also think it would be kinda' fun to have a 'spectre gunship' to play with. Ever since I saw them do that in C&C Generals, with it streaking in from a map corner, taking up an orbit, and pounding away at an area, I've been: "Okay, that's kinda' cool. A little inefficient, but cool."

The generic aircraft mix and match concepts here in Nuclear Option seems like a really good place to do something like that.


That being said, I would be worried about making it too overpowered. That's why I was opting for a balance against the darkreach. Just from a Meta standpoint, if it's too fast and powerful, you'll never see the Darkreach getting used.

That's why my version suggests reduced bomb payload compared to the 'reach. The Darkreach is slower to balance out a brutal payload, allowing interception. If we request a FAST strategic bomber, you have to offset it's obvious advantage.

Yeah, making it more expensive is one way to go, but you have to consider the risk of BFG syndrome. (You never use it, because its SO valuable.)

[Raubritter]

Originally posted by AdmiralTigerclaw:

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

One thing about great speed is that you run out of distance, solving for d in V=D/t. Meaning: the maps will need to be bigger. Good thing the dev is working on bigger maps, right?

Yeah, making it more expensive is one way to go, but you have to consider the risk of BFG syndrome. (You never use it, because its SO valuable.)

That's okay. Only those with great confidence would use it, and it would always be a tense experience when they do, both for themselves, their teammates in MP and the other team.
If anything it's cool if it remains a rare sight on the battlefield, makes it more impactful when somebody does decide to use it.

[Redeye 43]

Originally posted by AdmiralTigerclaw:

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

One thing about great speed is that you run out of distance, solving for d in V=D/t. Meaning: the maps will need to be bigger. Good thing the dev is working on bigger maps, right?

Gonna' start pitying the Chicane pilots in that case.

-snip-

Please god give us a configurable autopilot

[ijs31052011]

Originally posted by Redeye 43:

I think, with the economy system, many of the cons can be abandoned in favor of just making it absurdly expensive. Having a functioning economy makes it possible to play around more, so my personal opinion would be:

Pros:
- SUPER FAST
- Enormous bomb load, BIGGER than the Darkreach with external pylons
- Drop the load for a CAS gun set
- Very high service ceiling, climbs like a demon to get there
- Enormous fuel capacity
- Somewhat stealthy
- Huge flare reserves, powerful jammer
- Fancy rearward nuke deployment system, like the A-5 Vigilante with its stores train

Cons:
- Absurdly expensive - multiple Darkreaches expensive
- Aforementioned external pylons destroy your RCS and make the jammer practically useless
- Terrible maneuverability, flying low is a gamble
- Very loud, gigantic heat signature makes flares practically useless in AB
- Falls apart if tapped
- No forward-facing guns (as if they'd be useful)
- ONLY the rearward nuke deployment system is usable at speed, conventional munitions are a no-go

The intent would be, in singleplayer at least, to make it so the enemy can only field one or two of them. I guess the problem would be that multiplayer would be a real pain, especially if everyone would try to jump on it all at once.

It would have to cost atleast a billion or more to have it cost multiple darkreach's plus weapon costs.

[Formous]

Why do people think the SR-71 is a bomber. There was a idea of a B variant but it's impossible. The hint's in the name guys Special Reconnaissance Model- 71.

It was designed to overfly Russia high enough beyond SAM range, and terminated at the development of a high altitude SAM system. However, as a bomber? Totally worthless by sheer design incompadibility.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally posted by Formous:

Why do people think the SR-71 is a bomber. There was a idea of a B variant but it's impossible. The hint's in the name guys Special Reconnaissance Model- 71.

It was designed to overfly Russia high enough beyond SAM range, and terminated at the development of a high altitude SAM system. However, as a bomber? Totally worthless by sheer design incompadibility.

Who said it was a bomber?

I'm referencing it for the engines.


Those beefy, BEEFY engines.

*Drools in J-58s*

[Formous]

Originally posted by AdmiralTigerclaw:

Originally posted by Formous:

Why do people think the SR-71 is a bomber. There was a idea of a B variant but it's impossible. The hint's in the name guys Special Reconnaissance Model- 71.

It was designed to overfly Russia high enough beyond SAM range, and terminated at the development of a high altitude SAM system. However, as a bomber? Totally worthless by sheer design incompadibility.

Who said it was a bomber?

I'm referencing it for the engines.


Those beefy, BEEFY engines.

*Drools in J-58s*

Perhaps. They look iconic to be sure. And maintainers hated them. And the accountants.

[Audiopulse]

Gonna be the partypooper. Currently I dont see this fit into the game. I hardly see Darkreaches being flown by players to begin with because why would you? There is always a SAM or ship with Stratolances somewhere and they will find you up to 50 km up high.

And beside the look - what will the gameplay loop be like in those? Once youre up there will be a long time of doing nothing but staring at maps.

I am not totally against the idea. But if there shall be supersonic bombers they need a place in the game first: Much larger maps and enough players willing to play this with a Simulator mindset.

Besides that I could see them as setpieces. Something someone could use in scenario building, but I would think there are some much mor important pieces to be finished at the moment.

[VirgoCompany]

I'd just load a Darkreach full of cruise missiles, pick a few targets at a base like it's defenses or a few hangers, and soon as I'm up I'll make a mild turn and spam all the cruise missiles before RTB and do it all again.