stuck on countermeasures in tutorial

[malospam]

I'm starting to get really annoyed with the lackluster tutorials in this game besides the other problem. In the tutorial called countermeasures, I can't seem to not get shot down even though I"m holding down the countermeaser button that it tells me to hold down +3 secs to make sure the missle doesn't still detect me. Whats going on here? I feel like I'm fighting the design of this game rather than the enemies in missions.

[:partyhat:]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3054393630

If it's an IR missile coming at you, try cutting your throttle to around 50% while flaring.
If it's a radar guided missile, fly perpendicular to it and use the jammer.
In either case getting behind terrain for 2-3 seconds should work.

[Pan_de]

From what i know about missiles(not sure if it applies fully to this game):
Countermeasures arent supposed to be a get out of jail card. A countermeasure gives you a chance of surviving, the true survival usually depends on much more factors.
1. Heat of your engine, as the other guy said if IR missiles come turn down your engine, apply flares and pull a heavy maneuver a few seconds before the missile hits.
This is a possible counter doesnt mean you´re gonna survive 100 percent(that would be boring)
2. Radar missiles, are best defeated by avoiding them in general, stay out of their deadly range,
2.1a if a radar missile is shot at you outside of that range you have a few options. If surviving is your only goal here simply turn around and flee while applying jamm. try to apply slight notching to reduce the missiles energy but dont pull too hard to keep your own energy high to outrun the missile.
2.1b If you want to close in on the target instead of fleeing, F pole the missile.(drag its energy) by flying to the side. you can also add notching and ground clutter notching(stay lower than the target´s radar ideally with ground behind you and stay 90 degree to the missile). Pull a heavy maneuver at the end to fully defeat the missile.
2.2 IF you are already within the deadly range. You can try notching(risky), or better hide between hills
2.3 IF you are outside of the deadly aspect(missile cant turn enough to hit you at close range especially) then simply keep turning at speed.

All of this is assuming you know excatly where the missile comes from and at what range. If you dont know then you should play it safe.

[IxianMace]

Originally posted by malospam:

I'm starting to get really annoyed with the lackluster tutorials in this game besides the other problem. In the tutorial called countermeasures, I can't seem to not get shot down even though I"m holding down the countermeaser button that it tells me to hold down +3 secs to make sure the missle doesn't still detect me. Whats going on here? I feel like I'm fighting the design of this game rather than the enemies in missions.

I had the same problem with that tutorial at the part where a SARH missile gets fired at you. Even flying directly to the next waypoint from the previous one, you might not be in the correct angle to be notching the missile, even with the help of the radar jammer.

In my opinion, that tutorial could be redesigned to be more user friendly. Here's a video of what they're trying to teach—flying perpendicular to the radar that's guiding a SARH missile onto you will cause that radar to lose track of you, and consequently the missile that's been launched at you will stop tracking you. Using the radar jammer just increases the margin of error for getting into the notch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrr4kCcbb9Y

[Twelvefield]

The dev changed the way countermeasures work - originally it was just a pure dice roll. Maybe they never changed the Tutorial to account for that.

[EmS]

just got the game but yea the tutorial tells me to do things that straight up don't work or aren't explained well. I get the concept but this should be shown not explained in text.

[Void Dragon]

Originally posted by :partyhat::

If it's an IR missile coming at you, try cutting your throttle to around 50% while flaring.

This, I cut it to 0 for 5 seconds and I only have to flare off 3 times before losing tracking. Its extremely simple when you figure it out.

[Nasdeak]

iam stucking too, notching not rly works while the tutorial messages are a secondary problem because the game stops and you have for reacting no time

[Wild Beret]

I am having problems with 2 ships mission where yeah not only ships fire air missile seems impossible to finish it because I get shot down easily at when trying to get closer

[Meemai]

The way the messages are presented in the notching tutorial give too little reaction time for notching and jamming, indeed. That could use some more work to make it a bit more viable.

After 200h playing, I successfully evade most incoming missiles while playing normally, yet I still struggle with the notching tutorial given the small reaction time that is given after the text messages.

[RezPutain]

It’s a small learning curve but once you get the hang of it I find it pretty easy, just not always guaranteed. It helps me to think logically about what the missile is doing and looking for.

IRs look for a large heat signature, I’m yet to discover if the sun can act as a flare, but the ones you have work fine so long as you can mask your heat signature with them, or create a large enough signature with them to confuse/distract the missile. With time you’ll learn how quickly and how many flares you need.

Radars are more complicated, but you can break them down into two stages, searching and hunting. SALHs are the easiest to jam/confuse as before a certain range (like 15-20kms) they often don’t actually know exactly where you are, this is represented by the missile alert above your map being just yellow. Once the missile has actually found you and is coming in for the kill, you’ll find it much harder to shake as it’s effectively pin pointed your position, this is noted by the alert now flashing red. The trick to beating these missiles is by reducing your surface area from them, turning from them, and jamming them.

ARH work basically the same as SARH but generally skip the search phase.

AGMs and ARADs can’t be jammed from my experience, but aren’t that manoeuvrable so just jink like crazy when they get within 1-1.5 clicks and you should be good (I avoided an ARAD in a darkreach, that aren’t made for air to air)

Do note though, the easiest way to counter a missile, is with terrain, or another missile. Putting terrain between yourself and the missile will either break the lock, or cause the missile to strike the terrain, and you can actually abuse the missiles flight pathing by staying low and near hills and ♥♥♥♥, as missiles often like to stick low, they often clip ridge lines when tracking a low flying target (the missile has to be launched from a low altitude for this to happen). But my favourite is just shooting the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ missile myself. You can do it with anything, but good luck using an AGM or an ARAD, and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you’re insane if you manage it with guns, but IRs and Radar AA missile are like 99% reliable at shooting down other missiles do long as you give them enough time to do so. Simply lock, and fire, the missile figures everything else out (you can do this on bombs, nukes, and anything that comes up on radar really, it’s pretty funny to just fox 3 a strat nuke the hostile darkreach sacrificed themselves to launch).

Hope this helps, good luck.

[Black Hammer]

Yeah, this tutorial (the radar one) feels kind of busted. There's no feedback or acknowledgement that anything you do matters; you get locked, missile fires, and nothing you do matters after that point.

After like 9+ tries, no luck. I've even gotten the beeping to stop like it lost lock, then I explode two seconds later.

[RezPutain]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

After like 9+ tries, no luck. I've even gotten the beeping to stop like it lost lock, then I explode two seconds later.

I got it on the second try, it doesn't give you anything to go off I agree, and maybe my flying experience in other games helped out, but it seems strange to me that you'd still be unable after 9+ tries. Might I ask, what was it exactly that you were doing?

[IxianMace]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Yeah, this tutorial (the radar one) feels kind of busted. There's no feedback or acknowledgement that anything you do matters; you get locked, missile fires, and nothing you do matters after that point.

After like 9+ tries, no luck. I've even gotten the beeping to stop like it lost lock, then I explode two seconds later.

They really meant it when they said they put you in the worst-case scenario. There's not much time to evade the missile from when you get the missile warning, so you have to quickly get your turn precise and combine it with your jammer in order to survive.

Don't worry if you got shot down. In my opinion, the tutorial is a bit harsh if it's aimed at new players. I'd start with something that gives you more warning and that fires at you from farther out. It's the principle of notching + jamming that's important for the player to understand. If you broke the lock, well done. Now you just need to get to the point where you can do that faster and on demand. The closer the missile gets before you become aware of it and begin evading, the faster you'll need to pull this off to avoid getting hit.

I made a new video featuring this tutorial. Maybe it'll help you and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXZSziPOipw

[Urk_da_WAAAGH!]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Yeah, this tutorial (the radar one) feels kind of busted. There's no feedback or acknowledgement that anything you do matters; you get locked, missile fires, and nothing you do matters after that point.

After like 9+ tries, no luck. I've even gotten the beeping to stop like it lost lock, then I explode two seconds later.

Read the text and it will explain that escaping the beeping is only half the work, after losing track the missile will still move towards your last tracked position, if you don't change altitude, speed or direction it will still nail you.

As someone who had also a hard time on this tutorial i can say your issue is not reading the little text the game shows on your screen.

[Eber Eisenschwein]

Notch window of the missile in the tutorial is WAY too small, like 1-2 degrees. Notching SARH/ARH missiles in DCS and WarThunder is a couple of orders of magnitude easier