Balance

[Postman Pat]

Balance in this game is all over the place. Swat is baffling bad, missing shots constantly and having useless abilities. Tank shreds everything with whatever he takes in comparison. Tesla tier 2 gun is better than both tier 3 options. Huntress passive crit is superior to Ghost crit cast and also makes it redundant to team them together since two people do the same thing.

Game is good but some of these decisions are perplexing.

[Bakstabbah]

Huntress and Ghost have very different way of playing. Ghost just decimates everything around him with Thousand Cuts and in long games you can get pretty much 100% uptime on his critical strike buff which is stronger than Huntress passive buff.

[BlackjackGT]

Everything's a hot mess - welcome to Early Access! The question's whether they'll do anything about it or just say 'working as designed." :D

I feel most abilities could benefit from just adding some "active benefit" at maybe partial and full upgrade points. Or else just change every ability to Sawblade Drones. :p

[Postman Pat]

Originally posted by BlackjackGT:

Everything's a hot mess - welcome to Early Access! The question's whether they'll do anything about it or just say 'working as designed." :D

I feel most abilities could benefit from just adding some "active benefit" at maybe partial and full upgrade points. Or else just change every ability to Sawblade Drones. :p

MORE BLADES

[Postman Pat]

Crazy how much better Explosive arrow is than Cold arrow, too.
cold arrow: slows temporarily, does damage.
explosive arrow: hits and does damage. Then explodes, doing aoe damage.

????

multibow: fires more projectiles, faster than it's evolutions, and crits nearly as hard as explosive bow

who made these decisions?

[Handbanana]

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

Balance in this game is all over the place. Swat is baffling bad, missing shots constantly and having useless abilities. Tank shreds everything with whatever he takes in comparison. Tesla tier 2 gun is better than both tier 3 options. Huntress passive crit is superior to Ghost crit cast and also makes it redundant to team them together since two people do the same thing.

Game is good but some of these decisions are perplexing.

i mean a few things here. Swat is pretty good. His abilities are actually pretty good. Grenade toss is huge clear and helicopter is better than it looks. His turret is actually pretty good too. He is one of the characters that carries the hardest. His assault rifle is huge damage.

They are aware of Engi T3 weapons being bad. I was hoping they would fix it in the last patch but hopefully it comes soon.

Huntress passive crit is not better than ghost. Ghost will give you 50% crit for 9 seconds with a base cooldown of 30 seconds. You can easily get 50%+ cooldown reduction making it permanent buff. You are correct though it is counter productive to have both if you take crit upgrades.

The thing you seem to not be understanding it meta progression and item upgrades. When you start to max cooldown reduction The helicopter has an 8 second cooldown and it constantly flying around chopping stuff. He also throws grenades every like 5 seconds.

[Handbanana]

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

Crazy how much better Explosive arrow is than Cold arrow, too.
cold arrow: slows temporarily, does damage.
explosive arrow: hits and does damage. Then explodes, doing aoe damage.

????

multibow: fires more projectiles, faster than it's evolutions, and crits nearly as hard as explosive bow

who made these decisions?

It would be broken if multibow just started shooting 8 explosive arrows. They know ice bow is trash balance changes are incoming. You trade projectiles for the huge explosions. Its a fair trade.

[Postman Pat]

Originally posted by Handbanana:

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

Balance in this game is all over the place. Swat is baffling bad, missing shots constantly and having useless abilities. Tank shreds everything with whatever he takes in comparison. Tesla tier 2 gun is better than both tier 3 options. Huntress passive crit is superior to Ghost crit cast and also makes it redundant to team them together since two people do the same thing.

Game is good but some of these decisions are perplexing.

i mean a few things here. Swat is pretty good. His abilities are actually pretty good. Grenade toss is huge clear and helicopter is better than it looks. His turret is actually pretty good too. He is one of the characters that carries the hardest. His assault rifle is huge damage.

They are aware of Engi T3 weapons being bad. I was hoping they would fix it in the last patch but hopefully it comes soon.

Huntress passive crit is not better than ghost. Ghost will give you 50% crit for 9 seconds with a base cooldown of 30 seconds. You can easily get 50%+ cooldown reduction making it permanent buff. You are correct though it is counter productive to have both if you take crit upgrades.

The thing you seem to not be understanding it meta progression and item upgrades. When you start to max cooldown reduction The helicopter has an 8 second cooldown and it constantly flying around chopping stuff. He also throws grenades every like 5 seconds.

It doesn't change that you throw grenades behind monsters and don't hit them. The same is true of mine field and the engineer's lightning towers. They don't help you clear threats around you or where you are going - which are the things that kill you. Helicopter *can* be okay, but it can also strafe absolutely nothing on a large cooldown. At least it has a half-decent DPS, though. Check your meters after a run for Mine Field, Arrow Rain, grenade trail. These barely (if they do) get to 100 dps. Shuriken pulls 100+. Saw Drone pulls 300+ placing it second only to actual weapons as far as I can see. Explosive arrow and cold arrow both pull less damage output than multishot - but if you fully upgrade the bow you have to deal with seeing the popups for 2 dead skills, which stinks. Explosive Arrows are at least competitive with Multi, but still lacking. No amount of metaprogression will change the underlying numbers and nature of the game.

Hopefully they do some balance passes! Minigun, Assault Rifle and Thousand Cuts being head-and-shoulders better than the other choices is a little boring. But I got like 10 hours out of it, so I got my moneysworth already. :P

[Mischnuss in China]

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

Crazy how much better Explosive arrow is than Cold arrow, too.
cold arrow: slows temporarily, does damage.
explosive arrow: hits and does damage. Then explodes, doing aoe damage.

cold arrow was the most overpowered thing in the demo. don't know if it was a bug or not, but they probably changed it

[Handbanana]

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

Originally posted by Handbanana:

i mean a few things here. Swat is pretty good. His abilities are actually pretty good. Grenade toss is huge clear and helicopter is better than it looks. His turret is actually pretty good too. He is one of the characters that carries the hardest. His assault rifle is huge damage.

They are aware of Engi T3 weapons being bad. I was hoping they would fix it in the last patch but hopefully it comes soon.

Huntress passive crit is not better than ghost. Ghost will give you 50% crit for 9 seconds with a base cooldown of 30 seconds. You can easily get 50%+ cooldown reduction making it permanent buff. You are correct though it is counter productive to have both if you take crit upgrades.

The thing you seem to not be understanding it meta progression and item upgrades. When you start to max cooldown reduction The helicopter has an 8 second cooldown and it constantly flying around chopping stuff. He also throws grenades every like 5 seconds.

It doesn't change that you throw grenades behind monsters and don't hit them. The same is true of mine field and the engineer's lightning towers. They don't help you clear threats around you or where you are going - which are the things that kill you. Helicopter *can* be okay, but it can also strafe absolutely nothing on a large cooldown. At least it has a half-decent DPS, though. Check your meters after a run for Mine Field, Arrow Rain, grenade trail. These barely (if they do) get to 100 dps. Shuriken pulls 100+. Saw Drone pulls 300+ placing it second only to actual weapons as far as I can see. Explosive arrow and cold arrow both pull less damage output than multishot - but if you fully upgrade the bow you have to deal with seeing the popups for 2 dead skills, which stinks. Explosive Arrows are at least competitive with Multi, but still lacking. No amount of metaprogression will change the underlying numbers and nature of the game.

Hopefully they do some balance passes! Minigun, Assault Rifle and Thousand Cuts being head-and-shoulders better than the other choices is a little boring. But I got like 10 hours out of it, so I got my moneysworth already. :P

Again you aren't taking into consideration upgrades like CDR.

You throw grenades the opposite direction you are running which is usually away from the large group of enemies. Take it and check the dps its usually near the top at the end of a run and it ha a large area. Its also a very short cooldown. Can get it down to like 4 seconds.

Mines last forever as far as i can tell. You max it out and you throw like 9 out every 10 seconds and they just blow up everything.

Lighting turret is trash yes.

Helicopter doesn't actually have a long cooldown. It looks that way because its base is 40 seconds but each upgrade reduces it by 5 seconds. In the end its cooldown is the same as every other skill or faster. Again add CDR to that and its cutting through the entire map evyer 10 seconds.

Explosive arrows are better than multishot. That is just a fact. You are wrong on that point. Ice is still bad though.

Minigun is actually worse than rocker launcher also.

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

Balance in this game is all over the place. Swat is baffling bad, missing shots constantly and having useless abilities. Tank shreds everything with whatever he takes in comparison. Tesla tier 2 gun is better than both tier 3 options. Huntress passive crit is superior to Ghost crit cast and also makes it redundant to team them together since two people do the same thing.

Game is good but some of these decisions are perplexing.

Seems to me you havent unlock anything lolz..

[ultra]

Looks like some people playing five minutes and go cry on forum, hmm what they say after 20 minutes ? Game broken ?

Lighting turret amazing, depends on timer and items you pick, crit minigun best weapon - no other way

[Karlongkar]

Ghost crit passive is hugely superior to Hunter due to skill cd reduction. you usually maintain 70-80 percent uptime. and hunter is trash in every way except crit passive while ghost is good at every single skill.

[Snowfunk]

SWAT abilites are pretty underwhelming, agreed, but the AR carries real hard.

Ghost seemed like absolute garbage, until you get Thousand Cuts.

As for Huntress, as leader, she proves a passive 30% crit, I find that consistency better than Ghost's crit. But her other abilites are not particularly great and her T2 weapons are also not amazing. Freezing Arrows basically has a negative aps, useless. Explosive Arrows are alright, but the delay makes them not reliable. As a package, she's not worthwhile imo.

Medic seems to be by far the worst character. I haven't unlocked the Stims yet, but before that, there's simply no reason to bring this character.

And Tank, hands down best character, every weapon and several abilities are fantastic.