New player, I think developers need to rethink the grind.

[OmegaXesis]

Just noticed how I need to get x # of kills with each character to get their next unlock. But it only counts if they are the leader. I've only played about 3 hours at this point, but already feeling fatigued. I kinda wish their kills counted even if they weren't the leader.

(Maybe give players 2 options to unlock it. They can get 5,000 kills as leader, or 10,000 when they aren't leader). So it can stay the same, but also let you passively unlock it while picking them for you team?

[OmegaXesis]

I play a lot of survivor type games; VS, Scarlet Tower, Boneraiser minions, Crafty Survivors, Nomad Survivor, Brotato.

I think when a game becomes too grindy it makes me fatigued quickly.

And another major issue that I really don't like so far is how I take damage a lot of times without seeing or knowing what hit me. This is the kind of game I wish had a "dodge or dash" ability. Space bar or another button on the controller that lets you quickly dash/dodge out of the way that gives some i-frames to help get through a big crowd would be nice too.

[OmegaXesis]

Also why am I able to clear 20 minutes with some struggle on normal difficutly? But then switching to infinite mode with the same characters and picking same gear options, I can't even get to 20 mintues. Why is infinite mode harder than normal mode? Should it be the same difficulty up to 20 minutes, and then get harder from that point??

[Blue]

It's fairly easy to get the kills once you progress more. You can use your stronger characters to grind kills for the weaker leader in endless mode. I normally get around 20k in one endless game. Also, when you get high enough level you can unlock more i-frames, but I don't think I've seen anything hit me that I didn't see coming. There is a type of enemy that leaves a damaging AoE after it dies, and I often walk into that by accident.

[Fluxion]

For the first hour or two I played I might have agreed with you, but no, I totally disagree. There needs to be some investment. I've played a ton of Bullet Heaven's now, kinda my new thing atm and most of them, especially the ones on the cheaper side with no "dailies" or "endless" or real incentive to replay them once your characters and abilites are unlocked, are pretty much boring and time to move on I've found.

At least for me. I have a million other games to play and if I've unlocked everything on the game and there's no real goal left, why do I want to keep playing? Time to move on to the next.

Nordic Ashes (in this genre) for instance I'll come back maybe once a day because it has a different challenge daily. MMO's, well, they're MMO's so there's usually always something to do. FPS's well, they're usually one and done. MOBA's I may play off and on and they're generally evolving with new characters etc. A seasonal like say Diablo 4 (yea, I actually like it) I'll play till I get bored with the season. Yea, I'm scatterbrained and play tons of genres, pretty much what strikes me atm.

Bottom line is, for me, there needs to be a carrot to chase. But i get it; it doesn't need to be Dark Souls either.

[Kalafiorek]

Hi! Thank you for your feedback, it's very important to us!

I'm happy to tell you that in the next update, we'll be introducing separate experience bars for each Survivor, so you'll be able to share your zombie-killing experience with other squad members.

We'll also continue to tweak the game modes and add more difficulty levels. We're making some tweaks to the visuals where they're needed, so we'll be adding - as an example - a ground clutter slider to the in-game options, as well as improving the display of some of the enemy indicators.

It's an important design point for us not to add a dash function to the game, as we want to keep the player input requirements as low as possible, to keep the game accessible to all types of players.

[OmegaXesis]

Originally posted by Fluxion:

For the first hour or two I played I might have agreed with you, but no, I totally disagree. There needs to be some investment. I've played a ton of Bullet Heaven's now, kinda my new thing atm and most of them, especially the ones on the cheaper side with no "dailies" or "endless" or real incentive to replay them once your characters and abilites are unlocked, are pretty much boring and time to move on I've found.

At least for me. I have a million other games to play and if I've unlocked everything on the game and there's no real goal left, why do I want to keep playing? Time to move on to the next.

Nordic Ashes (in this genre) for instance I'll come back maybe once a day because it has a different challenge daily. MMO's, well, they're MMO's so there's usually always something to do. FPS's well, they're usually one and done. MOBA's I may play off and on and they're generally evolving with new characters etc. A seasonal like say Diablo 4 (yea, I actually like it) I'll play till I get bored with the season. Yea, I'm scatterbrained and play tons of genres, pretty much what strikes me atm.

Bottom line is, for me, there needs to be a carrot to chase. But i get it; it doesn't need to be Dark Souls either.

Except it's fun to do for a couple characters, but then you realize you need 10,000+ kills for every character. I wish I could just play with their kits without having to grind each one for so long.

One thing I realized with grindy VS type games is that by the time I unlock all the good things, I'm burned out and no longer want to play it. This is what happened with me and Halls of Torment. It took me so long to unlock so many things, I stopped playing from the burn out.

[OmegaXesis]

Originally posted by Kalafiorek:

Hi! Thank you for your feedback, it's very important to us!

I'm happy to tell you that in the next update, we'll be introducing separate experience bars for each Survivor, so you'll be able to share your zombie-killing experience with other squad members.

We'll also continue to tweak the game modes and add more difficulty levels. We're making some tweaks to the visuals where they're needed, so we'll be adding - as an example - a ground clutter slider to the in-game options, as well as improving the display of some of the enemy indicators.

It's an important design point for us not to add a dash function to the game, as we want to keep the player input requirements as low as possible, to keep the game accessible to all types of players.

I appreciate the response, and look forward to this

"I'm happy to tell you that in the next update, we'll be introducing separate experience bars for each Survivor, so you'll be able to share your zombie-killing experience with other squad members."

I gave the game another chance and played some more, and it's getting better with more unlocks. But that first 3-4 hours was rough dying a lot until I had enough unlocks to survive lol

[Fluxion]

Originally posted by OmegaXesis:

Originally posted by Kalafiorek:

Hi! Thank you for your feedback, it's very important to us!

I'm happy to tell you that in the next update, we'll be introducing separate experience bars for each Survivor, so you'll be able to share your zombie-killing experience with other squad members.

We'll also continue to tweak the game modes and add more difficulty levels. We're making some tweaks to the visuals where they're needed, so we'll be adding - as an example - a ground clutter slider to the in-game options, as well as improving the display of some of the enemy indicators.

It's an important design point for us not to add a dash function to the game, as we want to keep the player input requirements as low as possible, to keep the game accessible to all types of players.

I appreciate the response, and look forward to this

"I'm happy to tell you that in the next update, we'll be introducing separate experience bars for each Survivor, so you'll be able to share your zombie-killing experience with other squad members."

I gave the game another chance and played some more, and it's getting better with more unlocks. But that first 3-4 hours was rough dying a lot until I had enough unlocks to survive lol

Really, I mean it was the same for me. It's been that way for a lot in the genre. The first few hours you have to power through (and I've wanted to just drop a BUNCH of them) but once the ball starts rolling, it's not bad and gets quite fun.

Off the top of my head, Army of Ruin was a tough one for me personally to get going on, but turned out to be a lot of fun.

OK, gonna be really honest. I almost didn't even get into Bullet Heaven's because *gasp*, I hated Vampire Survivors. Still don't care for it much. The only time I play it is the phone version sitting at the Dr's office. Yeah, I'm probably going to get kicked out of the genre now.

Didn't like Gladius at all either at first; now I have 100's of hours in it and in my top 5. Ugh, I'm just rambling.