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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
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The money for developing games comes from the customer and I don't condone wasting development resources which could have been used to improve the game further instead - even those leeches at marketing are more useful than Denuvo.
This is genuinely one of the most pointless comments I have ever seen - Games are full of middleware, such as speed tree:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpeedTree
Guess what? You pay for that multiple times too alongside other 3rd party software which games commonly use to get made. Whilst it's admirable you are sticking to your principals of not buying something with denuvo, you don't have to haunt this place, filling it with nonsense.
Iit's like buying a car: I don't think you'd agree paying for extras which have the potential to brick your car with no other redeeming qualities.
Whilst I strongly doubt denuvo has any hardware performance impact on p3r, it's clearly not being removed. To follow the analogy you might as well go from forecourt to forecourt yelling at customers who have cars with locks so they aren't stolen from the forecourts.
Vote with your wallet and move on.
It feels like SEGA is a remnant of how the industry used to do things before. Raising awareness is important, that's how the gaming industry improves.
I don't just make up numbers:
https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/publishers-face-20-percent-game-revenue-reduction-if-denuvo-drm-is-cracked-quickly-according-to-new-study
The real problem is people pirating games in the first place. The awareness is people need to stop doing that as otherwise you will never generate enough outrage to counter the financial loss.
Wukong, which was the most played game on steam for a chunk, also had denuvo so even big names have it. If you can't generate sufficient protest volume on that, you aren't going to on a niche title like this.
They just assume that this has to apply to all of the 90k games on Steam which never used Denuvo as well, for... reasons I guess? You can read more about it here.
Yes, Wukong sold exceptionally well but that's one game which benefited from exceptional marketing and circumstances - It's actually an outlier. Did I mention that 7 out of 10 games in Steam's new best sellers for the year 2024 were indie games and mostly DRM-free - throwing quite the wrench in the notion that games with Denuvo sell any better or worse than games without it.
https://gameworldobserver.com/2024/12/19/top-steam-and-console-games-2024-copies-sold-revenue
If I may give you another perspective, consider Steam’s annual bestsellers: 2023 had Baldur's Gate 3, 2022’s top title was Elden Ring, 2021 was Valheim, and going back further we have Hades, Slay the Spire, Rimworld, Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley, and The Witcher 3 in the years prior. No game with Denuvo has been Steam’s top-selling title in the past decade. It’s almost always DRM-free games leading the charge - with the exception of Elden Ring which only used Steam's DRM-, suggesting that consumer choice may lean towards DRM-free titles when other factors are comparable.
So... a one-off title with exceptional conditions (89.7% of the sales are from China where people are used to being monitored - it didn't sell much anywhere else) vs a decade worth of examples showing that DRM-free sell just as well if not more than games with Denuvo? If you're attached to a constructive discussion, which will you consider now?
You mentioned that Steam itself is DRM, but that’s not accurate. Valve offers an optional DRM system through Steamworks, which developers can choose to implement. By default, the Steam client does not perform DRM checks. If a game does not use Steamworks DRM, it can run without the Steam client being open—or even installed. You can copy and paste such games freely to other computers.
For example, try launching Baldur's Gate 3 with Steam closed. You'll find that it works completely independently from the client, proving it is DRM-free.
For reference, you can check:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam
https://gameworldobserver.com/2024/12/19/top-steam-and-console-games-2024-copies-sold-revenue
Many developers choose not to implement DRM, and Valve allows this flexibility because they recognize that there are better ways to address piracy than using technological barriers. The reasons for avoiding DRM vary. Some developers want to save resources since DRM implementation can be costly and time-consuming. Others oppose DRM on principle, believing it harms legitimate users without effectively stopping piracy.
This philosophy can be seen across several successful developers and publishers. CD Projekt Red, for instance, strongly opposes DRM as the parent company of GOG. They argue that DRM punishes legitimate players more than it prevents piracy. Their games, such as The Witcher series and Cyberpunk 2077, have remained top sellers for years without DRM. Valve itself follows a similar philosophy. Gabe Newell has famously said, “Piracy is a service problem,” and the company’s games are all DRM-free.
Other notable developers that avoid DRM include Supergiant Games, creators of Hades and Bastion, who believe that respecting their audience is more important than using intrusive DRM. Larian Studios, known for Divinity: Original Sin 2 and Baldur’s Gate 3, has fully committed to DRM-free releases, with both games dominating sales charts for consecutive years. ZA/UM Studio, the team behind Disco Elysium, avoids DRM entirely, emphasizing artistic integrity and a seamless player experience. Hinterland Studio, creators of The Long Dark, take a similar approach, believing that DRM damages the relationship between developers and players.
ConcernedApe, the developer of Stardew Valley, has always supported DRM-free distribution, which has contributed to the game’s enormous success. Paradox Interactive is another major example. They are known for their commitment to DRM-free distribution, and their CEO has publicly criticized DRM due to personal negative experiences. Other developers like Re-Logic (Terraria), Team Cherry (Hollow Knight), 11 Bit Studios (Frostpunk), and Double Fine (Psychonauts) demonstrate that DRM-free games can be immensely successful with strong community engagement and a positive relationship with players.
The belief that DRM is essential to curb piracy is outdated. Many misconceptions about piracy and DRM come from a limited understanding of how the gaming industry operates today. Developers who embrace DRM-free strategies have shown that DRM often alienates legitimate customers more than it deters pirates. Building a positive brand image and fostering community loyalty are far more effective approaches. Developers like those mentioned above prove that piracy isn’t the insurmountable threat it’s often made out to be.
I feel like I'm wasting my breath considering the moving goalposts here but what can I say? I'm a damned optimist and still hope you'll suddenly open to the idea that the gaming industry is larger and more complicated than you realized, Denuvo being a minuscule and stubborn part of the industry.
Name 5 that didn't take YEARS to crack.
You have no idea what you are talking about. There are maybe three people on the whole planet that can crack Denuvo. It has nothing to do with the popularity of the game itself. God, you're so ignorant.
1. I did not know this at the time of posting. If you had actually read, you'd see that I acknowledged the mistake. I don't follow whether or not a game uses Denuvo.
2. Never did I state that popular games that use Denuvo are cracked fast nor did I remotely suggest that it is easy. If, as you mention in point 3, only a handful of people are capable of cracking games that use Denuvo then any crack will take time. The people that do crack denuvo are incredibley talented, but these cracks are pet projects that could take years upon years to complete. They aren't going to crack everything. I'd argue they're probably not going to crack the majority of games that use Denuvo.
If you were capable of cracking Denuvo games, but it takes considerable effort, why would you focus on cracking a game that you have no interest in or where you gain very little reward from it? You probably won't waste that time.
3. Ignorant? Nah. I don't think so. I recognize that those who can crack Denuvo aren't going to waste time cracking games that use Denuvo with low demand for a crack or that they have no personal interest in (whatever that interest is) since its so hard to do. They are people after all, with lives outside of cracking denuvo games.
This doesn't affect me though. I don't care whether or not a game uses Denuvo or not. I'll complain about Denuvo if it negatively impacting performance (which it often does), but if a game is good I'll play it with or without denuvo.
So why hackers do not seem as much interested in cracking games with Denuvo? For starters, Denuvo's adoption rate has been down 30% in 2024 compared to 2023 with only 30 games over more than 15k released on Steam in total. Also, as Birdii mentioned, there's literally not much worth taking the time anymore and no glory due to illegitimate consumption having moved on to more convenient ways to play games with Denuvo without paying: Family sharing, account sharing, emulation... you name it.
That's only one example but there are websites selling Denuvo offline activation tokens now. For a buck or two pirates can play all the latest games on day one, no cracking required with all the convenience of Steam - some groups are even offering them for free. Denuvo has been obsolete for a long while now but they're burning their marketing budget to make the last remaining publishers using their products believe they're still relevant. It's not been very effective so far: Even EA, their biggest customer, did not use it for their latest single player title last year after 12 years without missing a single game.
Not only Denuvo did not in fact slow down, let alone stop piracy - they provided the hacking community and the mob with a lucrative business opportunity, making gaming worse in the process for everyone. *sarcastic golf clap*