Confused about crit buffs..

[Raikyo]

Does Crit rate boost and Crit rate amp stack? Or is it just better to stack Apt Pupil and Crit rate amp for a crit build?

It doesn't say it can (like slash boost and amp) or can't stack (counter passives).

Making a crit build persona for end game.

[Green.Sliche]

I believe they do stack. Just like Regen / Invigorate stack so long as they are different tiers, aka 1, 2, 3. Same rule for Boost and Amps. I also believe Single Target Boost Passive works on crits too.

Apt Pupil, Crit Boost and Crit Amp, along with Attack Type Boost and Attack Type Amp can stack up and allow you land some nice 4 digit crits when you couple those with Charge ( Bloody Charge probably works even better ) with Heat Riser and Debiliate combo.

[Arisato]

They certainly stack. I just don't know how much crit rate boost and amp increase the chance. But since we know apt pupil will double the crit chance I feel crit rate amp + apt pupil is good enough.

[Raikyo]

I see I see, thanks guys

[BothDoorsCares]

Crit Rate Boost/Amp are additive buffs. 5% and 15% respectively.

Apt Pupil is a multiplicative buff, 2x of the base crit rate.

Apt Pupil multiplies before the additive Crit Rate passives.

[Yürei]

Originally posted by BothDoorsCares:

Crit Rate Boost/Amp are additive buffs. 5% and 15% respectively.

Apt Pupil is a multiplicative buff, 2x of the base crit rate.

Apt Pupil multiplies before the additive Crit Rate passives.

I really wish they would add detail descriptions as an option. Something I could toggle to have info on what exact percentages skills have.

[BothDoorsCares]

Originally posted by Yürei:

Originally posted by BothDoorsCares:

Crit Rate Boost/Amp are additive buffs. 5% and 15% respectively.

Apt Pupil is a multiplicative buff, 2x of the base crit rate.

Apt Pupil multiplies before the additive Crit Rate passives.

I really wish they would add detail descriptions as an option. Something I could toggle to have info on what exact percentages skills have.

People have to dig for this kind of info. Kinda sucks. Well there's a mod that makes it so the descs are more descriptive.

[Arifufu]

Apt pupil alone is enough, you can add critical amp and critical boost to a skill that has 5% crit chance such as vile assault, but something like scarlet havoc theurgy which already have 20% crit chance base apt pupil is enough, you can also start battle with auto-rebellion persona.
refer to this: https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/p3r/skills some of the skills written their crit chance, if none that i assume they have 5% crit chance base

for counter skill, yes they don't stack, so high counter only needed so you have 20% chance to counter upcoming strike/slash/pierce skill from the enemies.

for boost + amp + driver, some say it's capped at 5x, so here's to count them:
driver (no alimighty driver) = 1,75 ; amp = 1,5 ; boost = 1,25 ; single target boost / multi target boost = 1,15 each ; magic mastery (except almighty) = 1,5 ; magic ability (except almighty) 1,25 ; after shift only: shift amp = 1,2x and shift boost = 1,1x

so if you have driver + amp + boost + single/multi target boost it will be = 1,75 x 1,5 x 1,25 x 1,15 = 3,77 damage multiplier < this is usually for strike/slash/pierce build since there's no magic mastery nor magis mastery physical version however you can increase physic skills even further with shift amp and shift boost after shift only, so it will be 3.77 x 1,1 x 1,2 = 4,97 (at least it doesn't reach 5x cap and only work if you shift to your MC)

if added magic mastery and magic ability it will be 3,77 x 1,5 x 1,25 = 7,06 since it capped 5x then 5x it is, i think i read somewhere the cap is actually 6x, but either way none of them capped at 7x, and i don't think you ever need shift amp and shift boost for your magic persona build except you build the magic persona in non DLC persona.

[BothDoorsCares]

Originally posted by Arifufu:

Apt pupil alone is enough, you can add critical amp and critical boost to a skill that has 5% crit chance such as vile assault, but something like scarlet havoc theurgy which already have 20% crit chance base apt pupil is enough, you can also start battle with auto-rebellion persona.
refer to this: https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/p3r/skills some of the skills written their crit chance, if none that i assume they have 5% crit chance base

for counter skill, yes they don't stack, so high counter only needed so you have 20% chance to counter upcoming strike/slash/pierce skill from the enemies.

for boost + amp + driver, some say it's capped at 5x, so here's to count them:
driver (no alimighty driver) = 1,75 ; amp = 1,5 ; boost = 1,25 ; single target boost / multi target boost = 1,15 each ; magic mastery (except almighty) = 1,5 ; magic ability (except almighty) 1,25 ; after shift only: shift amp = 1,2x and shift boost = 1,1x

so if you have driver + amp + boost + single/multi target boost it will be = 1,75 x 1,5 x 1,25 x 1,15 = 3,77 damage multiplier < this is usually for strike/slash/pierce build since there's no magic mastery nor magis mastery physical version however you can increase physic skills even further with shift amp and shift boost after shift only, so it will be 3.77 x 1,1 x 1,2 = 4,97 (at least it doesn't reach 5x cap and only work if you shift to your MC)

if added magic mastery and magic ability it will be 3,77 x 1,5 x 1,25 = 7,06 since it capped 5x then 5x it is, i think i read somewhere the cap is actually 6x, but either way none of them capped at 7x, and i don't think you ever need shift amp and shift boost for your magic persona build except you build the magic persona in non DLC persona.

Nah we want 80% critical rate Heaven's Blade. Or even better, Masquerade. I believe luck is also a factor with critical rates, my Heaven's Blade Helel is closer to 95% than 80%.

Yes, it's capped at 5x. And without DLC you can realistically only hit 4.1x for magic. While it's 3.75x for phys with Criticals. The cap is easiest to see if you boost Goemon with Mastery to complete hell. But practically, 4.7x without Mastery is good enough for actual applications in the game.

Pretty sure shift boost and amps do not count for caps. Same goes for Weakness Boost/Amp. Interestingly enough, it should be noted that those are just 1.1x and 1.2x boosts respectively. Critical Boost's critical damage boost is around 1.2x. While Amp's critical damage boost is around 1.4x. Phys Boost is around 1.1x while Amp is 1.2x and Buff Boost's around 1.1x more than the usual 1.4x increase. Translating to 1.54x with Tarukaja. While Amp is 1.3x more than the game's usual 1.4x. So it is 1.82x with Tarukaja active if I have the right idea. Well, you want everyone to have buffs up so the base boost is really how much it gives.

Junpei can basically hit with phys the hardest in the game if Drivers didn't exist. Who knew giving the guy the passive that broke SMT V would make him broken?

Conversely, Aigis' is not that impressive. Especially considering that she has some really bad phys attacks in comparison. But her Second Theurgia more than makes up for it. Still loses to Junpei if he crits, however.

Akihiko is hard carried by his characteristic. He's completely useless without it.

Anyways for Mitsuru, her presence would just add 7% crit rate to all with ailments. And 15% if it's upgraded. That should be all for the passives from characteristics that's not just Invigorate 4 or auto-masukunda. Making her great to tag-team Junpei with, especially when you unlock Ambush's ability to give opponents ailments if hit from behind.

Fuuka's weakness mitigation will come from 0.9x damage to 0.85x. Overall decently helpful but not exactly the end of the world if you don't have it. Then again, her helping the garden gives the most powerful versions of the plants that's planted. So you'll get the first one at least.

I think that's about it?

[mediumll]

Originally posted by BothDoorsCares:

Yes, it's capped at 5x. And without DLC you can realistically only hit 4.1x for magic. While it's 3.75x for phys with Criticals. The cap is easiest to see if you boost Goemon with Mastery to complete hell. But practically, 4.7x without Mastery is good enough for actual applications in the game.

Pretty sure shift boost and amps do not count for caps. Same goes for Weakness Boost/Amp. Interestingly enough, it should be noted that those are just 1.1x and 1.2x boosts respectively. Critical Boost's critical damage boost is around 1.2x. While Amp's critical damage boost is around 1.4x. Phys Boost is around 1.1x while Amp is 1.2x and Buff Boost's around 1.1x more than the usual 1.4x increase. Translating to 1.54x with Tarukaja. While Amp is 1.3x more than the game's usual 1.4x. So it is 1.82x with Tarukaja active if I have the right idea. Well, you want everyone to have buffs up so the base boost is really how much it gives.

Junpei can basically hit with phys the hardest in the game if Drivers didn't exist. Who knew giving the guy the passive that broke SMT V would make him broken?

1. Can you explain what you’re using to get 4.7x without mastery? Is that without DLC too?

2. Regarding Junpei, wouldn’t MC still be able to outdamage him without drivers? MC could have a higher crit rate, plus slash boost and amp and single target boost (1.25 x 1.5 x 1.15 x 1.5(crit) = 3.23). Junpei only has an accessory slot and a weapon slot, so if he gets slash boost and slash amp to do more damage (1.25 x 1.5 x 1.9(crit) = 3.56), he wouldn’t have nearly as high a crit rate and so would end up getting outdamaged by MC critting more (wouldn’t it be just 35%? Brave blade 20% plus his characteristic which i’m assuming is 15% just like crit rate amp?) and if he gets crit stuff instead like apt pupil and crit rate amp, he’d be missing the damage from slash boost and amp and so still outdamaged by MC.

[Lunos]

Originally posted by BothDoorsCares:

Crit Rate Boost/Amp are additive buffs. 5% and 15% respectively.

Apt Pupil is a multiplicative buff, 2x of the base crit rate.

Apt Pupil multiplies before the additive Crit Rate passives.

Thanks for this. Pretty simple explanation, assuming it's correct.

Say, how does the Luck stat play into this?

As in, by how much does having 99 points in Luck boost the crit. rate chance?