I really miss the fatigue system.

[Thorgal]

I'm at the beginning of the game, and I find the remake very successful, but Altus' desire to level down the difficulty in order to avoid offending casual gamers bothers me (i've already done p3 FES twice)

The fatigue system isn't just an artificial difficulty, as you might read here or there, it's an adjustment variable that's an integral part of the original game, especially as it's totally realistic that newly-fighting students aren't able to string together dozens of battles without collapsing.
In short, being a very patient gamer, I'm sure that a mod that will restore the fatigue system will arrive sooner or later (it doesn't seem very difficult to do either), so I'll wait.

Also, my memory may be failing me, but I have the impression that enemy AI has been made stupid, with mobs that will attack you over and over again with an attack you're immune to, while at the same time your AI-controlled teammates never miss an opportunity to exploit their weaknesses. I hope a mod will fix this too.

Anyway, who's in the same frame of mind as me?

[Joe]

fender178 a écrit :

Joe a écrit :

I see, thanks. I mean, while I liked the weapon switching, I suppose I can live with the game not having it since I played 3 portable, 4 and 5 as well. Just a pity that there's no more option since I liked giving the MC the bow because he sounded funny when he fires it and I can do surprise attacks from a safe distance. As for the kendo, another minor loss but I think it's the same person anyway compared to Persona 4 where you had the choice of either drama or music if I recall correctly.

But to hear that there's no fatigue system anymore, is it finally possible for me to grind to insane amounts of levels at the start of the game before even proceeding the story too far forward?

Yeah as along as you get enough HP and SP restoring items I don't see why not. There are a few obstacles that could be annoying as you LVL up the EXP gained decreases and it really adds up. Not sure about Reload but in FES and Portable if you are a way higher level than the shadows then they will start fleeing from you on overworld/Tartrus walking screen.

Oh right, last one. Can I still send out party members to scout around the dungeon/level or not anymore? I remember that I could use them to map out the area for a quick exit or to find chests faster while they can also fight monsters solo. I think it was called tactics or something like that while moving around the dungeon.

[Thorgal]

SunfireKnight86 a écrit :

Atlus understands their game better than fans.

They don't understand their fans, they understand their interest in not upsetting potential future customers. The majority of gamers don't finish 3/4 of the games they buy (just look at Steam's achievements: and as soon as they're hard to get, the number of players who get them rarely exceeds 1%).

Not everyone is just looking for fun without annoyance in a game. Many (too many) studios take gamers for morons and whiny babies whose asses need to be wiped, and I deplore the fact that Atlus take this direction.

When I play Dark Souls, I expect to have a hard time and die lots of times, even if it means smashing my controller (it happened to me a long time ago, though). When I play the remake of P3, I expect the experience to be the same, and without the fatigue system, it's not, it's just too easy to cheese the game, but I can understand the different points of view.

[fender178]

Joe a écrit :

fender178 a écrit :

Yeah as along as you get enough HP and SP restoring items I don't see why not. There are a few obstacles that could be annoying as you LVL up the EXP gained decreases and it really adds up. Not sure about Reload but in FES and Portable if you are a way higher level than the shadows then they will start fleeing from you on overworld/Tartrus walking screen.

Oh right, last one. Can I still send out party members to scout around the dungeon/level or not anymore? I remember that I could use them to map out the area for a quick exit or to find chests faster while they can also fight monsters solo. I think it was called tactics or something like that while moving around the dungeon.

Nope that feature is gone unfortunately. I liked that feature.

[Overeagerdragon]

fender178 a écrit :

Joe a écrit :

Oh right, last one. Can I still send out party members to scout around the dungeon/level or not anymore? I remember that I could use them to map out the area for a quick exit or to find chests faster while they can also fight monsters solo. I think it was called tactics or something like that while moving around the dungeon.

Nope that feature is gone unfortunately. I liked that feature.

Actually; you are wrong... it's still in the game but you get it around the last part of the third block.... and for some stupid reason it usually coincides with a Monad door being on that same floor for me and I'm not going to risk not having that party member when the enemy behind that door can potentially throw out big nuking spells and is locked permanently if you don't go through that door when you arrive on said floor

[archonsod]

Thorgal a écrit :

The appeal of this mechanic is obvious: it forces you to plan your time management and juggle between different choices.

It doesn't though. Or rather, you're already doing that due to the social links, attribute boosts et al. All the fatigue mechanic had you do was also plan in toilet breaks.

In the base game, you could much less easily maximize your stats because it was impossible to explore the entire Tartarus section in one go.

You had plenty of time to maximise your stats even with multiple Tartarus runs per month. In fact there was, and still is, zero point to exploring the entire section early anyway since you'll be heading back in a few days before the full moon in most cases (to be fair, it does mean you can get enough cash to cover your activities for the rest of the month on the first run, though I doubt that's particularly useful outside of the early game).
That's kind of the problem; there's nothing the fatigue system did that wasn't already being done, often far more effectively, by another system. About the best you could say of it was that it made grinding Tartarus that little bit harder, but since it was fairly normal to end up over-levelled anyway it wasn't particularly good at it.

[Joe]

Overeagerdragon a écrit :

fender178 a écrit :

Nope that feature is gone unfortunately. I liked that feature.

Actually; you are wrong... it's still in the game but you get it around the last part of the third block.... and for some stupid reason it usually coincides with a Monad door being on that same floor for me and I'm not going to risk not having that party member when the enemy behind that door can potentially throw out big nuking spells and is locked permanently if you don't go through that door when you arrive on said floor

That's cool. At least the option is still there. Thanks for the follow up answer.

[Frostea]

Overeagerdragon a écrit :

fender178 a écrit :

Nope that feature is gone unfortunately. I liked that feature.

Actually; you are wrong... it's still in the game but you get it around the last part of the third block.... and for some stupid reason it usually coincides with a Monad door being on that same floor for me and I'm not going to risk not having that party member when the enemy behind that door can potentially throw out big nuking spells and is locked permanently if you don't go through that door when you arrive on said floor

Don’t locked monad doors reopen if you go back on a different day. I’m pretty sure the tutorial said that.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Thorgal a écrit :

I'm at the beginning of the game, and I find the remake very successful, but Altus' desire to level down the difficulty in order to avoid offending casual gamers bothers me (i've already done p3 FES twice)

The fatigue system isn't just an artificial difficulty, as you might read here or there, it's an adjustment variable that's an integral part of the original game, especially as it's totally realistic that newly-fighting students aren't able to string together dozens of battles without collapsing.
In short, being a very patient gamer, I'm sure that a mod that will restore the fatigue system will arrive sooner or later (it doesn't seem very difficult to do either), so I'll wait.

Also, my memory may be failing me, but I have the impression that enemy AI has been made stupid, with mobs that will attack you over and over again with an attack you're immune to, while at the same time your AI-controlled teammates never miss an opportunity to exploit their weaknesses. I hope a mod will fix this too.

Anyway, who's in the same frame of mind as me? :lunar2019piginablanket:

I think you are remembering this mechanic a little wrong. It at best was annoying, and at worst was broken as hell.

In context, I have this game from when I was stationed in Germany when it came out on my PS2 slim originally.

This mechanic never actually functioned the way it was intended, honestly. You'd expect it to have some value behind the scenes that you could deplete over time fighting in Tartarus resulting in you being tired, but in truth, it was just a random die roll for each character every fight. I remember instances where I went into Tartarus feeling Great, and one fight with a weak enemy taking half a second, and suddenly I'm left tired. In frustration I'd leave and then be left sick the next day. Other times, I'd go in feeling fine, and fight 40-50 times and never feel tired. It was all up to chance.

Players at the time hated it. In all honesty, it was a bad mechanic to prevent you from grinding, and it did that poorly, as it only stopped you until you were over leveled. Once that happened the hit/evasion penalty didn't matter and you just steamrolled every enemy anyways. It also encouraged weird gameplay loops of visiting the nurse to make yourself sick, to then go to the bathroom to maybe make yourself feel great, which was not intuitive to say the least. It's just better to let that go entirely.

What we have now isn't the best with the twilight fragments, but it's certainly better than fatigue ever was. You at least know how many you have, and the game isn't going to just rob you of them for no reason.

Edit: Oh yeah, don't forget that the game even admitted that the fatigue system was bogus and the night before a full moon you had infinite stamina and could grind all you wanted anyways.

[fender178]

Overeagerdragon a écrit :

fender178 a écrit :

Nope that feature is gone unfortunately. I liked that feature.

Actually; you are wrong... it's still in the game but you get it around the last part of the third block.... and for some stupid reason it usually coincides with a Monad door being on that same floor for me and I'm not going to risk not having that party member when the enemy behind that door can potentially throw out big nuking spells and is locked permanently if you don't go through that door when you arrive on said floor

I see. I am glad that feature does it exist. Well from what I have seen in the menus and options that feature looks like it is hidden some where.

[Yürei]

fender178 a écrit :

Overeagerdragon a écrit :

Actually; you are wrong... it's still in the game but you get it around the last part of the third block.... and for some stupid reason it usually coincides with a Monad door being on that same floor for me and I'm not going to risk not having that party member when the enemy behind that door can potentially throw out big nuking spells and is locked permanently if you don't go through that door when you arrive on said floor

I see. I am glad that feature does it exist. Well from what I have seen in the menus and options that feature looks like it is hidden some where.

There seems to be a lot of weird changes which seem to make sense for newer players. The Reaper is one of them.

[Joe]

Yürei a écrit :

fender178 a écrit :

I see. I am glad that feature does it exist. Well from what I have seen in the menus and options that feature looks like it is hidden some where.

There seems to be a lot of weird changes which seem to make sense for newer players. The Reaper is one of them.

A'ight, what changed with the Reaper? I remember back then that if you waited too long on a floor, he'd appear. It was pretty distasteful though when they made the big bad reaper trapped in an itty bitty chest though.

[Yürei]

Joe a écrit :

Yürei a écrit :

There seems to be a lot of weird changes which seem to make sense for newer players. The Reaper is one of them.

A'ight, what changed with the Reaper? I remember back then that if you waited too long on a floor, he'd appear. It was pretty distasteful though when they made the big bad reaper trapped in an itty bitty chest though.

They made it so he can't appear before his tutorial pops up. So before that moment, he will never appear. Its a change more for new players who want to take their time getting use to the game. After the tutorial is shown tho, he probably can appear anywhere I guess.

[Joe]

Yürei a écrit :

Joe a écrit :

A'ight, what changed with the Reaper? I remember back then that if you waited too long on a floor, he'd appear. It was pretty distasteful though when they made the big bad reaper trapped in an itty bitty chest though.

They made it so he can't appear before his tutorial pops up. So before that moment, he will never appear. Its a change more for new players who want to take their time getting use to the game. After the tutorial is shown tho, he probably can appear anywhere I guess.

Oh, that's fine I suppose. Wouldn't want people who were minding their own business at the tutorial part of the game get smacked in the face immediately.

I thought they drastically changed something or they nerfed him so the Reaper can be new player friendly.

[Teddy]

Thorgal a écrit :

archonsod a écrit :

I want a game to resist me and give me a hard time, not give me the stick to beat it with !

Like every game ever?

[Pyro3000]

Joe a écrit :

Yürei a écrit :

They made it so he can't appear before his tutorial pops up. So before that moment, he will never appear. Its a change more for new players who want to take their time getting use to the game. After the tutorial is shown tho, he probably can appear anywhere I guess.

Oh, that's fine I suppose. Wouldn't want people who were minding their own business at the tutorial part of the game get smacked in the face immediately.

I thought they drastically changed something or they nerfed him so the Reaper can be new player friendly.

From what I've heard, he's easier to defeat now, which isn't that strange since just about everything is easier now with full party control and the shift actions, but he's still a tough fight that you need to be in your 80s to clear.

I don't mind him not appearing before the tutorial, though I wish it was less a tutorial and more that characters dropped hunts that staying too long could have consequences or dangers.