I really miss the fatigue system.

[Thorgal]

I'm at the beginning of the game, and I find the remake very successful, but Altus' desire to level down the difficulty in order to avoid offending casual gamers bothers me (i've already done p3 FES twice)

The fatigue system isn't just an artificial difficulty, as you might read here or there, it's an adjustment variable that's an integral part of the original game, especially as it's totally realistic that newly-fighting students aren't able to string together dozens of battles without collapsing.
In short, being a very patient gamer, I'm sure that a mod that will restore the fatigue system will arrive sooner or later (it doesn't seem very difficult to do either), so I'll wait.

Also, my memory may be failing me, but I have the impression that enemy AI has been made stupid, with mobs that will attack you over and over again with an attack you're immune to, while at the same time your AI-controlled teammates never miss an opportunity to exploit their weaknesses. I hope a mod will fix this too.

Anyway, who's in the same frame of mind as me?

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

The fatigue system also allowed you to "pace yourself" in terms of exploring Tartarus. Which was quite nice, really. RN, I basically speedrun it. Especially on normal. The "baton pass" + no fatigue allows less drain on the MC's SP (you can just baton pass to your teammates for weaknesses, instead of hoarding stuff yourself for the fights against a variety of shadows instead of the same type) AND allows you to just go, until you are completely drained. There's also a plenty of SP restoring items available, so you can go even further.

On one hand, it's nice to have more nights for stat raise. On the other, I feel the urge to just push until resources are drained completely or I've reached the last available floor. Because otherwise it's not the optimal use of available time. I've had the same issue with P4 and P5, finishing dungeons and palaces effectively in one day.

Especially in P5, where that made some of the Palaces completely unbearable, because of how awfully long and boring they are.

[TwoBit]

Originally posted by archonsod:

Nah, fatigue was a pointless mechanic that didn't seem to serve any clear purpose to begin with. Though it was always amusing how you could recover from being tired by going to the toilet; they should probably have renamed it "bladder".

Yah, the only reason the Fatigue system existed was to limit your ability to explore the Tartarusa and forced you to balance the dungeon vs your social life. But SP does that for you, and the calendar also forces you to pick what you want to do based on what day it is.

There is no real reason for the system in the remake.

[Niras]

I'm mixed about fatigue system, maybe more in favour of it while not really being mad or sad about it's absence.

On one hand you already are limted by SP and SP resotoring items already so putting specially designed system on top of that seems little overkill. You could argue SP does exacly the same thing as fatigue in later entries which is to limit your dungeon crawling runs. It also gets irrelevant somewhere after 2nd full moon in P3 FES at least.

On other one I like how this limts how much you can go grinding in Tartarus and how makes you plan your days around sickness and tiredness. Overall makes venturing into Tartarus more of commitment. You can't do few trips just before full moons to power up with no issues.
P3P already nerfed to the point where it only affects you days after Tartarus adventures so I don't think incorporating it that form would significantly detract from the experience for newer players.

[Blackened Halo]

Originally posted by Niras:

I'm mixed about fatigue system, maybe more in favour of it while not really being mad or sad about it's absence.

On one hand you already are limted by SP and SP resotoring items already so putting specially designed system on top of that seems little overkill. You could argue SP does exacly the same thing as fatigue in later entries which is to limit your dungeon crawling runs. It also gets irrelevant somewhere after 2nd full moon in P3 FES at least.

On other one I like how this limts how much you can go grinding in Tartarus and how makes you plan your days around sickness and tiredness. Overall makes venturing into Tartarus more of commitment. You can't do few trips just before full moons to power up with no issues.
P3P already nerfed to the point where it only affects you days after Tartarus adventures so I don't think incorporating it that form would significantly detract from the experience for newer players.

There was no SP system and also no calendar in the original game? :O

[Niras]

Originally posted by Blackened Halo:

Originally posted by Niras:

I'm mixed about fatigue system, maybe more in favour of it while not really being mad or sad about it's absence.

On one hand you already are limted by SP and SP resotoring items already so putting specially designed system on top of that seems little overkill. You could argue SP does exacly the same thing as fatigue in later entries which is to limit your dungeon crawling runs. It also gets irrelevant somewhere after 2nd full moon in P3 FES at least.

On other one I like how this limts how much you can go grinding in Tartarus and how makes you plan your days around sickness and tiredness. Overall makes venturing into Tartarus more of commitment. You can't do few trips just before full moons to power up with no issues.
P3P already nerfed to the point where it only affects you days after Tartarus adventures so I don't think incorporating it that form would significantly detract from the experience for newer players.

There was no SP system and also no calendar in the original game? :O

SP was in original game. By SP and I meant mana which is used for spells. It's in every Persona game but it might be called differently in each game.

Calendar was in original game too

[Blackened Halo]

Originally posted by Niras:

Originally posted by Blackened Halo:

There was no SP system and also no calendar in the original game? :O

SP was in original game. By SP and I meant mana which is used for spells. It's in every Persona game but it might be called differently in each game.

Calendar was in original game too

So then I do not understand why you said "on one you already are limited by SP..." etc if its the same like in the original game. So in the original game there were the limitations which are in the remake PLUS the fatigue system?

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Originally posted by TwoBit:

Originally posted by archonsod:

Nah, fatigue was a pointless mechanic that didn't seem to serve any clear purpose to begin with. Though it was always amusing how you could recover from being tired by going to the toilet; they should probably have renamed it "bladder".

Yah, the only reason the Fatigue system existed was to limit your ability to explore the Tartarusa and forced you to balance the dungeon vs your social life. But SP does that for you, and the calendar also forces you to pick what you want to do based on what day it is.

There is no real reason for the system in the remake.

SP does NOT do it for you if you are even a bit smart about the use of Weaknesses, Baton Passes, character rotations and usage of SP recovering items. I go through Tartarus in 2 goes without SP items, in 1 go with SP items, pretty much. To free up all of the other evenings. Just to set an example, at the start of the game, I've finished the available Tartarus, before Akihiko had a chance to join. That's how trivial stuff is on Normal with the new changes. Bosses intended for the team of four? Just rush them with three, who cares.

Only 3 characters to drain SP from? Nah, it's okay, it's doable and trivial. I actually had to force myself to make a dry run of the Tartarus to bring Akihiko somewhat to the overall level from 14 that he starts off with.

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

And hell, you have an option to recover ALL of the SP for the whole team if you want to and have enough of the Fragments.

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Point is: SP recovery is definitely not the issue in P3R. It wasn't MUCH of an issue in P3FES with right items and enough money, but P3R is just "forget about it, you've got this" in terms of SP.

[Niras]

Originally posted by Blackened Halo:

Originally posted by Niras:

SP was in original game. By SP and I meant mana which is used for spells. It's in every Persona game but it might be called differently in each game.

Calendar was in original game too

So then I do not understand why you said "on one you already are limited by SP..." etc if its the same like in the original game. So in the original game there were the limitations which are in the remake PLUS the fatigue system?

By limited by SP I meant you can't use skills indefinitely(healing, dmg spells etc.). You'll eventually run out of SP and amount of SP restoratives given to you aren't enough to sustain you from border floor to border floor, especially in early stages of the game. Like in other jRPGs spells are main source of dmg so without SP you're on severe disadvantage.

You can't reliable buy them in stores, the ones you can are very limited per day and not as strong as the ones you find in dungeons.
This is the case for every entry with some additons like ability to make SP consumables in P5. The best way to restore SP is to quit from Tartarus and comeback again other day.

Now put fatigue system on top of that. In original P3 and P3 FES it's essentially functioned as limiter for amount of battles a character can fight without being tired (serious debuff). The only way to restore it is to quit Tartarus and wait couple days.

Essentially both system serve one purpose: to limit player grinding in Tartarus.

With that you're limited in amount of spells you can cast and how long you can stay in dungeon by both systems. The differences being characters will get tired less often the higher lvl their are and tiredness will be inflicted after every Tartarus visit for few days. Past certain point fatigue it's irrelevant besides few enemy skills inflicting tiredness IIrc. SP it's a resource limiting you for entire games since more powerful skill cost more SP to use.

[Broso]

Most annoying feature of the original, glad to see it removed, good riddance.

Mate, if you want annoying crap, just stop playing games and go outside.

[Blackened Halo]

Originally posted by Niras:

Originally posted by Blackened Halo:

So then I do not understand why you said "on one you already are limited by SP..." etc if its the same like in the original game. So in the original game there were the limitations which are in the remake PLUS the fatigue system?

By limited by SP I meant you can't use skills indefinitely(healing, dmg spells etc.). You'll eventually run out of SP and amount of SP restoratives given to you aren't enough to sustain you from border floor to border floor, especially in early stages of the game. Like in other jRPGs spells are main source of dmg so without SP you're on severe disadvantage.

You can't reliable buy them in stores, the ones you can are very limited per day and not as strong as the ones you find in dungeons.
This is the case for every entry with some additons like ability to make SP consumables in P5. The best way to restore SP is to quit from Tartarus and comeback again other day.

Now put fatigue system on top of that. In original P3 and P3 FES it's essentially functioned as limiter for amount of battles a character can fight without being tired (serious debuff). The only way to restore it is to quit Tartarus and wait couple days.

Essentially both system serve one purpose: to limit player grinding in Tartarus.

With that you're limited in amount of spells you can cast and how long you can stay in dungeon by both systems. The differences being characters will get tired less often the higher lvl their are and tiredness will be inflicted after every Tartarus visit for few days. Past certain point fatigue it's irrelevant besides few enemy skills inflicting tiredness IIrc. SP it's a resource limiting you for entire games since more powerful skill cost more SP to use.

Did the fatigue system affect freetime activities anyhow?

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Originally posted by Blackened Halo:

Originally posted by Niras:

By limited by SP I meant you can't use skills indefinitely(healing, dmg spells etc.). You'll eventually run out of SP and amount of SP restoratives given to you aren't enough to sustain you from border floor to border floor, especially in early stages of the game. Like in other jRPGs spells are main source of dmg so without SP you're on severe disadvantage.

You can't reliable buy them in stores, the ones you can are very limited per day and not as strong as the ones you find in dungeons.
This is the case for every entry with some additons like ability to make SP consumables in P5. The best way to restore SP is to quit from Tartarus and comeback again other day.

Now put fatigue system on top of that. In original P3 and P3 FES it's essentially functioned as limiter for amount of battles a character can fight without being tired (serious debuff). The only way to restore it is to quit Tartarus and wait couple days.

Essentially both system serve one purpose: to limit player grinding in Tartarus.

With that you're limited in amount of spells you can cast and how long you can stay in dungeon by both systems. The differences being characters will get tired less often the higher lvl their are and tiredness will be inflicted after every Tartarus visit for few days. Past certain point fatigue it's irrelevant besides few enemy skills inflicting tiredness IIrc. SP it's a resource limiting you for entire games since more powerful skill cost more SP to use.

Did the fatigue system affect freetime activities anyhow?

Yes. It made night activities a risk (especially studying) and gave you access to the Nurse, who was raising your Courage.

[Pocket Dog]

Originally posted by Broso:

Most annoying feature of the original, glad to see it removed, good riddance.

Mate, if you want annoying crap, just stop playing games and go outside.

No kidding. I can't believe people are actually arguing over - and wanting - a handicap, one that was incredibly tedious, contrived and superfluous to begin with. Then again, gamers will always find something to complain about.

[Niras]

Originally posted by Blackened Halo:

Originally posted by Niras:

By limited by SP I meant you can't use skills indefinitely(healing, dmg spells etc.). You'll eventually run out of SP and amount of SP restoratives given to you aren't enough to sustain you from border floor to border floor, especially in early stages of the game. Like in other jRPGs spells are main source of dmg so without SP you're on severe disadvantage.

You can't reliable buy them in stores, the ones you can are very limited per day and not as strong as the ones you find in dungeons.
This is the case for every entry with some additons like ability to make SP consumables in P5. The best way to restore SP is to quit from Tartarus and comeback again other day.

Now put fatigue system on top of that. In original P3 and P3 FES it's essentially functioned as limiter for amount of battles a character can fight without being tired (serious debuff). The only way to restore it is to quit Tartarus and wait couple days.

Essentially both system serve one purpose: to limit player grinding in Tartarus.

With that you're limited in amount of spells you can cast and how long you can stay in dungeon by both systems. The differences being characters will get tired less often the higher lvl their are and tiredness will be inflicted after every Tartarus visit for few days. Past certain point fatigue it's irrelevant besides few enemy skills inflicting tiredness IIrc. SP it's a resource limiting you for entire games since more powerful skill cost more SP to use.

Did the fatigue system affect freetime activities anyhow?

Yes

Originally posted by FlyingTorcensoredWhale:

Yes. It made night activities a risk (especially studying) and gave you access to the Nurse, who was raising your Courage.

as said + doing your homework while being tired or sick in your room gave you no academics/knowladge points (or maybe it was only sick status, I don't remember).
You could also go sleep early for potential status boost called rested or smth which gave you some buffs during combat.