Are they really selling the 1.13 fan patch as DLC?

[Felipepepe]

What's going on here? The store screenshot clearly shows the new "Jagged Alliance 2 Classic HD" it's using v.1.13, a free fan-patch made by dozens of modders... yet it's only referenced as a "fan HD mod". Was a deal made, are the modders getting a share? Why should I pay for this?

This smells very fishy... would really appreciate some info.

[☠✠☩ Nekator ☩✠☠]

Me too... If Bears Pit approved of that ok.. otherwise it´s a bad scam.

[Raidor [dph]]

Sold is Jagged Alliance 2 - the original release from 1999 with all available original localizations.
The fan mod 1.13 is supplied for free.

[F.o.B.]

Originally posted by Raidor dph:

Sold is Jagged Alliance 2 - the original release from 1999 with all available original localizations.
The fan mod 1.13 is supplied for free.

Does this mean the cheats from the original game will also work? They don't in Wildfire.

[rambo919]

Originally posted by Raidor dph:

Sold is Jagged Alliance 2 - the original release from 1999 with all available original localizations.
The fan mod 1.13 is supplied for free.

Then why is wildfire required?

[Stardog765]

I would like to believe this is real and legit but something seems very very fishy here.
Gladly buy it but want to hear from someone involved with The Bears Pit first.

[Raidor [dph]]

Once again. You do not buy a fan mod. This fan mod V1.13 is for free. We only supply it for convenience and do not sell it. It is more comfortable and save to get it installed via Steam, than to download it from some unknown source and install it manually.
The idea behind offering the classic original release of Jagged Alliance 2 as DLC for JA2 Wildfire is, that this version with all original localizations and Wine ports for Mac and Linux was no where avaliable any more. We acquired the rights from the legal receiver of the former Publishing company and got it to run under Windows, Mac OS and Linux.

[mravac_kid]

So basically, it's just a case of false advertising, because none of that is clear from the game's page itself.

[Thrilla Gorilla]

Raidor - At the very least, you are using screenshots from a fan mod to promote the sale of your DLC. You are profiting off the works of others.

If you are actually distributing any code from 1.13 with your "DLC", well... I'd hate to be you.

As someone who contributed to 1.13 many years ago, I doubt any of my code is still in the main branch... but I've complained to Steam, regardless, for you stealing the efforts of dozens and dozens of people who have spent, quite literally, thousands of man hours working to get 1.13 where it is today.

I applaud the size of your testes, but regret the apparent fact that you had to trade your common sense for them.

You should start working on damage control, and pull this, before the fires of public opinion roast you on a skewer. It's coming, and the internet never forgets.

[Stardog765]

Ya this is what I was afraid of. They are totally using 1.13 content to sell this as "HD" and none of the underlying details are made clear on the Steam page. This is very shady business and ManApe is right, you better start working on some damage control. To try and basically steal so many's hard work and try to sell it without even giving them credit is an amazing display of either stupidity or just being a huge D bag.

Hopefully Steam will do what is right in this regard.

Good luck

[Raidor [dph]]

It is not our intention to SELL any fan mod. We sell the original JA2. It is absolutly no problem to remove the fan mod from the depot, if someone claims to do so.
But I have another question - if you guys have been involved into the development of the fan mod - who did allow you to use the localization material created by the Publishers? And why does the fan mod (like it is distributed on some sites) not require the original JA2?
We are not willing to argue with someone about how far a Fan mod can use material from a game - we do not do this with Knights & Merchants and we also do not want to do this with JA2. But what is bad on supplying a free available Fan mod as a free Depot to a DLC?
Shall we write somewhere "You can download a free Fan Mod 1.13 for JA2 here ....... but you have to install it by yourself ".

[Stardog765]

Well I can only speak for me but I was certainly never involved with the mod, just love their work and respect and use it.
And as far as I have ever known the mod does indeed require JA2 be installed to work.

I dont think its bad to provide the mod for Steam users but that is not what you are trying to do.
We know that and you know that I am pretty sure.

But I will remove myself from this conversation and let those who worked so hard on the actual mod carry on as its not appropriate for me to speak for them in any way. I am just a concerned fan.

[rambo919]

A few major problems... Firstly you should have first gotten some sort of at least semi-official permission from the lazy chaos that is the top part of the 1.13 hierarchy. Secondly you should have put more detail in the description as to just what mod you are using and where the devs can be contacted/followed... this kind of approach is simply unethical. Lastly... no official distribution of 1.13 that I am aware of does not require the base game, you cannot blame the devs/community for pirate AIO distributions.

[GhostLord]

Raidor... its called an end user agreement. Additionally, it's hard to legally target modders because it's difficult to show loss or damages as mods are generally free. Now, when you bundle it with a product and sell it included, then there is a case for loss or damages.

[Raidor [dph]]

Zuxxez has (had) such a kind of permission - and we purchased all rights from Zuxxez. But it is hard to find out who is really speaking for the mod team. And as said, it is not the intention to sell a mod. We simply found it useful to supply it - because it was tricky to install it into the Steam version manually and does not really make sense to let our customer support explain how a mod is installed. And the mod can be distributed free. However - if someone who has worked on V1.13 wants to contact us - [e-mail] is the eMail.
Beside this we updated the store description.

[GhostLord]

Although I am not versed in international copyright laws, here in the US copyright becomes automatic if the medium is fixed, which software releases generally are. Software can fall under this and it is a huge risk to infringe upon it to sell a product. The reason is because, as I stated earlier, loss or damages at that point can be easily quantified. Once the software has been infringed it's up to the claimant to file a lawsuit, which can only be done if the software has been filed with the US Copyright Office. It does make it difficult to protect non copyright work but also makes the seller liable in the future. However, if a software copyright is found to be infringed upon, the seller could be subject to both criminal and civil liability especially in the US with DMCA. Canada has a similar law as well. I am not giving any kind professional advice, merely pointing out information that is freely available.