It's too bad this game is dead.

[Arceal]

It was fun and had a lot of potential.

I think it was because it was a niche game style and the energy system pushed away so many people. It is nice to know that the dev's cared enough to remove it.

Now steam does not even show anyone playing it meaning there is <100 people on the steam client playing. Which is a pretty good indicator the game is dead and dying. I know there is people who play on the standalone client, but that is always a smaller number than the steam client anyway. (ノД`)・゜・。

[Matchumi]

I mean i think alot players play on their client on the website if thats how u feel its watever i guess

[Arceal]

Originally posted by MatchuPichururu:

I mean i think alot players play on their client on the website if thats how u feel its watever i guess

There is players that use the standalone. But I have never seen an instance where that number is greater or equal to the steam player base. There is a reason these MMO companies do not release player statistics to the public.

[Miyabi]

They've gotten too bored of the grind I guess. I mean, who wouldn't be put off by the amount of quests and text you have to go through just to get to the "Fun" stuff.

[[R] Nerva]

Closers suffers from a lot of small issues that, taken together, really hurt the quality of the game, so I'm not surprised it's not as popular on this side of the Pacific as it was in Korea. There are, however, a lot more players on the standalone version of the game than on Steam, mostly because the Steam version is very poorly integrated (no achievements, no cards, game time measurement is tied to the launcher instead of the game itself).

A big reason why Closers doesn't have more players on Steam is that it really doesn't get promoted on Steam anymore. The game's five years old now, looks its age, and the 'release date' on the Steam Store page is misleading. Only people who really dig into the discovery queues or have really limiting recommendation settings will actually see this game promoted on Steam's store frontpage.

I can't really call the game totally dead - at the top-end of play (Puri Ops, Tiamat to a lesser extent) there's a thriving population, but the entire level range getting there is dead. People don't group for story missions, you cannot get a party for Crisis mission queues or Planar Gate stuff, even Dimensional Doppelgangers queues are empty - although to be fair, that's likely because they're easily soloable. If you watch network chat, there's plenty of calls for parties at the endgame, but very little for anything less than that.

Closers really needs an influx of new players, not just old players returning in order to play new content or new character releases, which is what it's mostly surviving on right now. Unfortunately, I don't see it really getting the traction it needs in any realistic scenario. It's not dead, at least not yet, but it's definitely in decline. I give it another two years before it's put on maint-only support or closed, four at the absolute best. It'll probably survive a lot longer in Asia than it will here.

In the meantime, I'm having fun with it, playing it alongside my GF, and in the end that's really all I can ask from a game. When it stops being fun, we'll move on, but if it gets the attention and overhaul it needs to remain relevant and entertaining, we'll be back.

[Xanafiedcat]

the game is far from dead, most players do not use Steam to play Closers for whatever reason. we still have 2 new characters to look forward to and a lot of TF promotions. my main concern is how the population will do once we have all the characters out. once that happens some players may slowly begin to leave and that is when the loyal players will begin to show. real Closers fans will stick around until the end but the question is will we have enough loyal players to keep this game going.

Closers can probably survive another 3 years at least and maybe a bit longer. this is the time to start thinking about setting new long term goals in the game, tell your friends about Closers, and lead or help a guild/crew. as the community for this game we can extend it's life if there are enough players that enjoy Closers enough to stick around. there are some mmos that have low population and would have died a long time ago but survived because of the players that truly love the game.

as for advertising the game something like a crossover event with crunchyroll would be a good idea. since they are a fairly big website for watching anime they could add the Closers: Side Black Lambs episodes and put a few ads up for the game. in Closers we would get a event to craft a crunchyroll shirt, balloon, and other stuff like that which would be good advertising for crunchyroll as well. the mmo mabinogi did a event with crunchyroll like that.

[Arceal]

Originally posted by ティナ:

They've gotten too bored of the grind I guess. I mean, who wouldn't be put off by the amount of quests and text you have to go through just to get to the "Fun" stuff.

Look how many people play BDO. If the game is good, so is the grind. This games grind does not compare to BDO's. (Note: I am not a fan of BDO)

[Sola]

Originally posted by Arceal:

Originally posted by ティナ:

They've gotten too bored of the grind I guess. I mean, who wouldn't be put off by the amount of quests and text you have to go through just to get to the "Fun" stuff.

Look how many people play BDO. If the game is good, so is the grind. This games grind does not compare to BDO's. (Note: I am not a fan of BDO)

Not a good comparison here, comparing closers to BDO. BDO has many things that players need to afk for (fishing, grinding, cooking, working) whereas closers has no afk contents.

[Arceal]

Originally posted by Sola:

Originally posted by Arceal:

Look how many people play BDO. If the game is good, so is the grind. This games grind does not compare to BDO's. (Note: I am not a fan of BDO)

Not a good comparison here, comparing closers to BDO. BDO has many things that players need to afk for (fishing, grinding, cooking, working) whereas closers has no afk contents.

My point for bringing it up is, there is a game with FAR more grind that has way more people playing it than Closers.

[[R] Nerva]

BDO also had far more of an advertisement campaign than Closers did, and is at least two years younger of a game. You're correct that grind doesn't always make or break a game (Warframe, for instance, has literally thousands of hours worth of grind, but is also the one of the most played games on Steam, and unlike BDO is actually older than Closers), but BDO is really not a fair comparison.

I also wouldn't consider Closers' gameplay style niche. At least, not in today's MMO market. I can name, just offhand, several games with similar gameplay ideas; Dungeon Fighter Online, Dragon Saga, Kritika, and the now-defunct GhostX, just out of the games I've personally played. The subgenre isn't terribly saturated yet (unlike Everquest/WoW-style click-to-target games, which are oversaturated), but it's got a fair selection.

The problem with Closers is its lack of advertisement, and it's pervasive monetization. Now before you throw accusations about 'being greedy' and 'wanting everything for free' hear me out. Ask yourself a question - how long can you go without being reminded that there's things you can purchase? Not very long, I'd wager. Most costumes outside of accessories are available only through material conversion (which is really just a cash-shop gacha with a misleading name) or the EMP store. There are loading screen 'tips' that advertise purchasing Elite status. You can't even open your inventory or bank without being reminded that there's locked inventory slots that you have to spend EMP to open. Even the game's Steam Store page isn't immune; this game has a single DLC package that consists of just two costumes and a bunch of temporary cash-shop perks, that costs over $150 USD.

Most of the stuff you get that isn't basic consumables is time-limited, too - even stuff from quests. Just as an example, when you get promoted, you're given a temporary 3-star costume for your agent level. I'm okay with that being temporary, since it's a three-star costume set with a potent set bonus, but the craftable 1-star variant that you have to earn the materials and money to make is temporary, too. What's the point in time-limiting a 1-star costume set that doesn't even have an inherent set bonus until it's upgraded? It's literally no better than the 1-star costume set you get after completing your first couple quests, it's silly. Right now, 1/3rd of the items in my consumables inventory will expire in less than four months. That's a fairly long time to keep them, admittedly, but it's also a fairly long time to be allowed to keep them - what's the point in time-limiting them at all? It's like EnMasse is paranoid of letting you have stuff permanently unless you've bought it with EMP, even if it's totally untradeable and thus can't possibly harm the game's economy.

That kind of pervasive, ever-present monetization drives people, even whales with money to spend and an inclination to spend it, away from the game. Nobody likes to be badgered to buy things. I know I've purchased a lot more from games that don't bother me about their cash shop than from those that do. It also costs a company running an MMO next to nothing to give away stuff for free. It's literally just code; a few bits or bytes of data on their server, maybe a kilobyte or two of data traffic to award it to the player. Generosity, to a point, encourages people to buy more beyond that. Giving freebies, and then taking them away by making them time limited, discourages purchases - a fact more MMO companies need to learn.

There are times when reminding your players of the cash shop is appropriate, times when releasing paid DLC is appropriate, and times when giving your players time-limited samples of powerful cash-shop items is appropriate. EnMasse, unfortunately, doesn't understand when these things are appropriate or not, and as a result, overuses them in fear of giving the player too much. It makes them look miserly, and discourages people to do business with them.

[Miyabi]

So let's all agree to shove the game to new people so more peeps can join.
Lmao

[Arceal]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell. Lmao. I compared the grind in Closers to the grind in BDO. Now there is 3 different books worth of text people dropped on this thread talking about how the other game mechanics do not compare. That's not the point of the comparison lmao, stay on topic guys.

[[R] Nerva]

Arceal, please don't try to play gatekeeper. You're not good at it.

You, yourself, aren't staying on your own subject. Your subject consisted of expressing displeasure at Closer's decline, coupled with some speculation as to why it's happening, with Steam's low user-count to support your opinion. Later, you presented the idea that grind alone wouldn't be responsible for Closers' decline, a point I agree with despite the fact that I feel your comparison to BDO wasn't a good one to make.

The rest of us have been putting forward alternative interpretations of what that low user-count could mean and the reasons behind it, as well as alternative interpretations of why Closer's population as a whole is in a slow decline (as opposed to the 'dead' status you've given it).

Personally, I attributed Closers' decline to a lack of advertisement, pervasive monetization, outrageously-priced "DLC" packs, and overuse of time-limited freebies. If we all have to talk about your point and aren't allowed to present alternative viewpoints, then there is no discussion and you may as well lock the thread.

[x89b6]

this discussion is going nowhere

[Piccola]

Remembering, Steam has 300 average players daily. Not 100 as this guy said.

[Arceal]

Originally posted by R Nerva:

Arceal, please don't try to play gatekeeper. You're not good at it.

You, yourself, aren't staying on your own subject. Your subject consisted of expressing displeasure at Closer's decline, coupled with some speculation as to why it's happening, with Steam's low user-count to support your opinion. Later, you presented the idea that grind alone wouldn't be responsible for Closers' decline, a point I agree with despite the fact that I feel your comparison to BDO wasn't a good one to make.

The rest of us have been putting forward alternative interpretations of what that low user-count could mean and the reasons behind it, as well as alternative interpretations of why Closer's population as a whole is in a slow decline (as opposed to the 'dead' status you've given it).

Personally, I attributed Closers' decline to a lack of advertisement, pervasive monetization, outrageously-priced "DLC" packs, and overuse of time-limited freebies. If we all have to talk about your point and aren't allowed to present alternative viewpoints, then there is no discussion and you may as well lock the thread.

Sorry man. Honestly I am just mad that so few companies can run mmo's. So many companies just use the genre as a quick cash grab and I was kinda taking ♥♥♥♥ out on people on the forums.

Originally posted by Piccola:

Remembering, Steam has 300 average players daily. Not 100 as this guy said.

A little <300 plays a day yes. But <100 people playing at any given time. And the net gain of plays per day is rapidly dropping unfortunately.