Fatigue is a bad and intrusive system that fails to fix real problems.

[MalefactorIX]

So context: This game has 2 layers of "fatigue" imposed against the player. The first layer is character bound. By default, it is limited to 170. Early-game missions drain 5 stamina a piece, later game missions require 10. This limit is reset daily.
So while this system isn't as intrusive to new player-characters, it is incredibly intrusive late-game. Without any reset potions or premium benefits, you can play a wopping 17 missions. Considering these missions take 2-5 minutes to complere, you can literally be gated out of playing your character in less than 2 hours.
Correction: 1190 is the character limit and is reset weekly. This was not reflected in-game at the time of writing.

The second layer is account-wide. It drains in conjunction with ALL player-character fatigue. Unlike character fatigue however, it resets weekly. However, this limit is very high (2400~ by default iirc), allowing you to reach a character's cap 14 times a week. So considering it takes less than 2 hours on average to do that, you have roughly 28 hours of impeded game time a week - Not counting premium benefits, fatigue reduction items, or related rewards. This allows you to reach max fatigue twice per week, however you're still bound to having roughly 28 hours of impeded game time a week - Not counting premium benefits, fatigue reduction items, or related rewards
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So I know a lot of people are going to bring this up, but there are two "benefits" to this system:
- Prevents rapid economy bloating by forcing people to stop playing. People have to either prioritize farming for stuff or advancing their characters. Do not confuse this with "stopping" bloat, you cannot stop economy bloating without creating a resource sink - which this game has a fair amount of but that's not the topic of this thread.
- So people could kill thsmelves by doing something else. We'll get into that later!

Now with that out of the way, let's talk about all the problems!

1. Encourages bots/botting. You know, those thouands of dummy accounts with the sole purpose of playing the game so they can fence resources. They'll always have an edge over legitimate players and will be far more intrusive than in a game without this system.
2. Removes player choice and forces everyone to play the same. There are people with more time on their hands than others. This system, while beneficial to those who have limited play time, only hurt people who want to invest time into improving their player-character or experience with the game long-term.
3. The one benefit it has is a bandaid which ignores the real problem: The economy itself. If the system MUST exist to prevent rapid enconomy bloating, the economy itself is already bad. There are better systems which can be utilized to prevent hyperinflation of currency, overabundance of resources, and rapid play progression without gimping the player's ability to play the game. All of which the game has utilized in addition to the fatigue system.

So why was this system added? Well, credit to RyuKaiser for this answer. I couldn't have put it better myself. Bare in mind, this game is a localization of the Korean build by the same name:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RyuKaiser:

The reason stamina systems even exist in South Korea in the first place is because depression and suicide is ♥♥♥♥ING MASSIVE in Korea, to the point people ached for so much of an escape from their daily hell they were dying in front of the computer from exhaustion, playing themselves to death.

Rather than do something about their insane suicide rates and health care (including mental!), the Government decided to blame it all on the video games rather than face down it's failing their people. So yay, now less people are dying in front of their monitors thanks to stamina, meanwhile people still keep snuffing themselves out in record numbers.

So not only is this system a bandaid for a potentially broken economy, but it also a government sanctioned bandaid for an entirely more serious problem - Ouch! It's almost like this system was made entirely to be a detriment to people who want to play games as entertainment for their otherwise completely normal lives.

I'm not going to call for the removal or the continued utilization of the system in this thread. It is so bad, so fundamentally flawed that it shouldn't even be a point of contention. The fact that people would defend this kind of thing serves to highlight the amount of ignorant, out-of-touch, stereotypical degenerates so commonly associated with toxic communites. That is also why I opted to posting this here as opposed to the enmasse forums.

While I would also consider mirroring this in a review, the game isn't bad in my opinion. I made this because I want to see it be improved. I'm hoping that developers take a look into how this system serves only to hurt its English localization which is already competing in a bloated market of MMOs.

[Xan5131]

Pro-fatigue people: But bro! We want them to add payed items to remove fatigue because we love blowing $2-20 on cellphone games! WHY DONT YOU!!!

Anti-fatigue people: I just wanted to enjoy the game on my time in my own way, so much to ask from a game eh?

Everyone noticing this clash: Christ these kids need to get out doors. How the hell can the pro-fatigue people manage there cash to even survive? Oh, they bum off there mommys and daddys.
The anti-fatigue people need to get a life out side of video games though for sure.

[Moon Rabbit]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan5131:

need to get a life out side of video games though for sure.

Yeah, not like you. Right pal?

[neoVictrix]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan5131:

Pro-fatigue people: But bro! We want them to add payed items to remove fatigue because we love blowing $2-20 on cellphone games! WHY DONT YOU!!!

Anti-fatigue people: I just wanted to enjoy the game on my time in my own way, so much to ask from a game eh?

Everyone noticing this clash: Christ these kids need to get out doors. How the hell can the pro-fatigue people manage there cash to even survive? Oh, they bum off there mommys and daddys.
The anti-fatigue people need to get a life out side of video games though for sure.

It's cute that this is even an argument trying to be made, all things considered.

[Moon Rabbit]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von neoVictrix:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xan5131:

Pro-fatigue people: But bro! We want them to add payed items to remove fatigue because we love blowing $2-20 on cellphone games! WHY DONT YOU!!!

Anti-fatigue people: I just wanted to enjoy the game on my time in my own way, so much to ask from a game eh?

Everyone noticing this clash: Christ these kids need to get out doors. How the hell can the pro-fatigue people manage there cash to even survive? Oh, they bum off there mommys and daddys.
The anti-fatigue people need to get a life out side of video games though for sure.

It's cute that this is even an argument trying to be made, all things considered.

Yeah it's the third option. The "I don't care either way, I just wanted to be a ♥♥♥♥." side.

[neoVictrix]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Swami Chandraputra:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von neoVictrix:

It's cute that this is even an argument trying to be made, all things considered.

Yeah it's the third option. The "I don't care either way, I just wanted to be a ♥♥♥♥." side.

aka the best side.

[Blanchimont]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SMG-Scorpion:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blanchimont:

I'm going to call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on this. The reason is that WoW only had it during the beta phase and was removed during the beta phase. As part of its official release, fatigue was never part of it like FF14 was. Don't forget how FF14 was received.

The problem is that fatigue is not negligible. There simply isn't enough of it to even run all your dailies. You currently need 280 fatigue to run all the end game dungeons twice per day and you are only alloted 170 (PvP will give you an additional 33, but is avoided by a majority of the population, making it unrealistic to assume that people have 203 instead of 170). In four and a half days, you will cap a character.

We have games like Dungeon Fighter Online that have it, but how is the game doing now? The population has declined since the beginning of summer and never even recovered from its Nexon days. The system has killed far more games than it ever helped. The games that have it are barely holding on. Games like Dungeon Fighter Online, Elsword, Atlantica Online, and Vindictus all suffered irreperable damage to their population base because of fatigue based systems.

I agree somewhat. But Dungeon Fighter isn't losing playerbase due to the FP system. It's dying out due to issues on many fronts. The developers themselves turned out to be not much better than Nexon-USA. They ended up turning DFO into pure P2W with cash items that prevent enhancement resets/breaking/success chance boost, where only whales and gold-buyers win. They also removed the jump-cancel which used to allow people to create their own combos, made a lot of restrictions irritated majority of the veteran players. And the PVP "Fair Arena" is dominated by Female Slayers. They refused to balance the new characters, pissed off many veterans who only like to play the classic characters. All these turned most people away from PVP which was a huge selling point of that game.

Dungeon Fighter Online lost most of its initial population with the introduction of the fatigue system. During the beta phase of the game, fatigue was disabled and it was a massive hit. This was before the introduction of the cash items that it became infamous for. The problem was that once fatigue was enabled, interest in the game dropped significantly. The same happened to all three of Nexon's major games: Dungeon Fighter Online (Fatigue Points), Atlantica Online (Stamina), and Vindictus (Tokens). The player population dropped immensely in all three once it became clear that they introduced a fatigue system that they had no intention of removing. In the case of Dungeon Fighter Online, most people just went back to the JP version since there was nothing good in the NA version. The Atlantica Online population migrated to foreign servers that did not have stamina (SEA and some people even stealing SSNs for the Korean version). I have no idea what happened to Vindictus though. But, fatigue essentially turned 3 potentially great games into games that were dead on arrival.

[MalefactorIX]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blanchimont:

I have no idea what happened to Vindictus though. But, fatigue essentially turned 3 potentially great games into games that were dead on arrival.

iirc, they were removed from the NA build of Vindictus because concurrent player counts bombed after it was implemented. The community didn't fully recover (damage already done), but it did become stable and functioning with the removal.

[Blanchimont]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Malefact☢rix DBug:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Blanchimont:

I have no idea what happened to Vindictus though. But, fatigue essentially turned 3 potentially great games into games that were dead on arrival.

iirc, they were removed from the NA build of Vindictus because concurrent player counts bombed after it was implemented. The community didn't fully recover (damage already done), but it did become stable and functioning with the removal.

The problem is that even though it stabilized, it is a game that requires a constant stream of new players to work. Without new players, a lot of the battles are pretty much impossible for new players.