Ferry, and balance in general.

[Manslayer]

Like I normally don't really complain about horrible balancing, or characters that are probably fine but are playable. But I am at my ends meat with Ferry, I have been basically playing her exclusively and got to S, but there is literally nothing the Ferry can do to interact with her opponent if the opponent has played this game.

You can easily crossover her whip, so you can't throw it out after f.m, geegee doesn't apply enough meaningful pressure, nor quick enough, for 90% of the neutral skips. Her corner pressure is "okay" but requires a hard knockdown and your opponent to respect geegee in any way to get value. She hits combo limit so quickly it is insane, and also all geegee combos and 236 m combos always juggle so you get low value on the combos. Horrible defensive options.

Really I sit there half the time and wonder why I am even playing this character, sure she can beat people up that literally don't block or crossover, but once you run into anyone that has any skill you're just playing a really bad rushdown character with horrible defense and a horrible dive kick that 90% of the time, if geegee isn't hit stunning them, just ends up with he hitting them then getting punished. At least I have gotten a lot better at blocking.

Oh she is also negative on like every single move in her kit minus like c.l and c.h.

And I feel this carries over to the mid tier characters, and the top tier are playing a completely different game. It is like the top tier are playing Blazblue, and the bottom tier are playing Street Fighter.

[toasted]

go into the top 50 list, find a ferry player, watch their replays, copy what they do, enjoy

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by toasted:

go into the top 50 list, find a ferry player, watch their replays, copy what they do, enjoy

I literally have, I do all the things they do, the problem is its just a losing gameplan. The main thing they do is get people into corners or oppress people with normals to hopefully manipulate them into a corner, the thing is though once they get neutral skipped a lot of these good players crumble like dust. I've even watched tons of gameplay of like good Ferry players like Bepaw, Can coffee etc, its literally just a losing battle from second 1.

They win because they're better than their opponent, they are obviously better than me but being able to geegee then instant overhead or go low, or lock people down, I do this and it works sometimes, but the second you whif one thing, or lose that hard knockdown, you have to fight the entire map back just to lose to 2 combos.

Then I ask myself, why am I playing a neutral character that can't even neutral that well and also sucks at rushdown. Metera suffers from the same thing, the only difference is Ferry has infinitely better normals.

[Cinnamoroll]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

I literally have, I do all the things they do, the problem is its just a losing gameplan.

If you were doing all the things they are doing, you wouldn't be in S right now.
Ferry is struggling a tad compared to the rest of the cast but she isn't the weakest of the bunch. It's not a "losing battle from second 1", we just have to work a little harder. If it were like this then these good Ferry players simply wouldn't win against other players around their level. We're not climbing Everest, we're just walking up a slightly steeper inclined hill than the cool kids in S tier.

I don't understand why you say these things if you also fully acknowledge that you're whiffing stuff. If you're having problems with execution then focus on that.
You are not at a high enough rank for the tier lists to affect your results much. It's time to stop blaming the game.

Sidenote: If you're not hitconfirming your 236L and people start using cross over through it, if they're not doing it on reaction (15f startup) you can simply punish it by sweeping the cross over on reaction... which then leads to your geegee oki.
If throwing geegee out at unsafe times is causing you to eat neutral skips... simply don't? You don't really need geegee in neutral to get out of S (I can personally attest to this). Play keep out, punish their bad mistakes, let geegee do it's thing when you get your juicy oki.
If your opponent isn't respecting geegee in the corner after a knockdown, you can catch jumps and pressing with 66L usually, and obviously you know how to punish reversals.

The defensive options aren't great, but a good brave counter really can get you out of that corner on it's own if you pick right on the next interaction. This character IS suffering on defense and it's fine to feel pained over it, but don't let Ferry be your problem. Ferry is not why you lost. It's not a healthy mindset.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Not the Protagonist:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

I literally have, I do all the things they do, the problem is its just a losing gameplan.

If you were doing all the things they are doing, you wouldn't be in S right now.
Ferry is struggling a tad compared to the rest of the cast but she isn't the weakest of the bunch. It's not a "losing battle from second 1", we just have to work a little harder. If it were like this then these good Ferry players simply wouldn't win against other players around their level. We're not climbing Everest, we're just walking up a slightly steeper inclined hill than the cool kids in S tier.

I don't understand why you say these things if you also fully acknowledge that you're whiffing stuff. If you're having problems with execution then focus on that.
You are not at a high enough rank for the tier lists to affect your results much. It's time to stop blaming the game.

Sidenote: If you're not hitconfirming your 236L and people start using cross over through it, if they're not doing it on reaction (15f startup) you can simply punish it by sweeping the cross over on reaction... which then leads to your geegee oki.
If throwing geegee out at unsafe times is causing you to eat neutral skips... simply don't? You don't really need geegee in neutral to get out of S (I can personally attest to this). Play keep out, punish their bad mistakes, let geegee do it's thing when you get your juicy oki.
If your opponent isn't respecting geegee in the corner after a knockdown, you can catch jumps and pressing with 66L usually, and obviously you know how to punish reversals.

The defensive options aren't great, but a good brave counter really can get you out of that corner on it's own if you pick right on the next interaction. This character IS suffering on defense and it's fine to feel pained over it, but don't let Ferry be your problem. Ferry is not why you lost. It's not a healthy mindset.

No, its not that Ferry is why I lost, its because this game is trash is why I lost and I am burntout from having to play against the same skilllesss ass rushdown 24/7 and always losing every 33/66.

You basically said in your sidenote EVERYTHING that is wrong with the character. You simply CAN'T use your buttons. People can crossover through 236l on hitconfirm, you will get punsihed, if you don't do anything, they've gotten closer and you can't punish their cross over. Then if you try to 2m to punish crossover and they jump you're punished with any combo. Ferry is absolutely horrible, but she is also in a horrible game that is designed for pushing buttons and getting wins off that alone.

I know for a fact if I swapped characters, and put the SAME amount of effort onto Lancelot or Seox, then I would most likely get much better results. The thing is, people like you want to say its the player not the game, and I am not very good, the problem is, I have to be A LOT better than my opponent to yield the same results as them. That in of itself is why this game is miserable to play. Which means, in order for my to exit S, I need to grind games, make minimal mistakes, and basically do nothing and hope my opponent jumps into my... oh right 2h is blockable, my 8 second cd antiair.

Also I was saying all it takes in one whiff and I am pretty much in a horrible position. How many times can my opponent whiff or makes mistakes before they're dead? Usually around like 12-20.

[Llama3Lord]

literally just 2U or 2M to catch cross over. nothing about your character or the game is stopping you from getting out of S, it's just that you want to cry and piss yourself instead of learning

[Cinnamoroll]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

No, its not that Ferry is why I lost, its because this game is trash is why I lost and I am burntout from having to play against the same skilllesss ass rushdown 24/7 and always losing every 33/66.

You basically said in your sidenote EVERYTHING that is wrong with the character. You simply CAN'T use your buttons. People can crossover through 236l on hitconfirm, you will get punsihed, if you don't do anything, they've gotten closer and you can't punish their cross over. Then if you try to 2m to punish crossover and they jump you're punished with any combo. Ferry is absolutely horrible, but she is also in a horrible game that is designed for pushing buttons and getting wins off that alone.

People cannot crossover your 236L if you hitconfirm into it, it literally combos, they're in hitstun, same with 236H at closerange after f.H or a CH from f.H, 2M, f.M, etc. My sidenotes are not problems with the character, they're the problems with you. I'm telling you how to solve them, you aren't inclined to listen if you don't mind suffering the way you currently are.

You are however correct that you'd probably get better results in the same amount of time with Shoox or Lancelot. They are easier characters to play, that is a given. Ferry is a setplay character, and for every option they have to escape it you have an option to punish it (usually). If you're not willing to learn how to do that it's totally fine, there's nothing wrong with that.
This game would be more fun if the offensive options weren't so strong (I think most people are feeling a tad drained by 66L and a few ultimate skills), but it isn't skill-less and these matchups aren't as rigged against you as you'd like to believe they are.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Llama3Lord:

literally just 2U or 2M to catch cross over. nothing about your character or the game is stopping you from getting out of S, it's just that you want to cry and piss yourself instead of learning

No, the problem is I have spent a lot of time learning, from both mechanical and knowledge of combos. The problem is, I guess one wrong time, I am in a corner and dead.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Not the Protagonist:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

No, its not that Ferry is why I lost, its because this game is trash is why I lost and I am burntout from having to play against the same skilllesss ass rushdown 24/7 and always losing every 33/66.

You basically said in your sidenote EVERYTHING that is wrong with the character. You simply CAN'T use your buttons. People can crossover through 236l on hitconfirm, you will get punsihed, if you don't do anything, they've gotten closer and you can't punish their cross over. Then if you try to 2m to punish crossover and they jump you're punished with any combo. Ferry is absolutely horrible, but she is also in a horrible game that is designed for pushing buttons and getting wins off that alone.

People cannot crossover your 236L if you hitconfirm into it, it literally combos, they're in hitstun, same with 236H at closerange after f.H or a CH from f.H, 2M, f.M, etc. My sidenotes are not problems with the character, they're the problems with you. I'm telling you how to solve them, you aren't inclined to listen if you don't mind suffering the way you currently are.

You are however correct that you'd probably get better results in the same amount of time with Shoox or Lancelot. They are easier characters to play, that is a given. Ferry is a setplay character, and for every option they have to escape it you have an option to punish it (usually). If you're not willing to learn how to do that it's totally fine, there's nothing wrong with that.
This game would be more fun if the offensive options weren't so strong (I think most people are feeling a tad drained by 66L and a few ultimate skills), but it isn't skill-less and these matchups aren't as rigged against you as you'd like to believe they are.

You're lietrally wrong, you can crossover the 236l even on hitconfirm. Just because something combos doesn't mean it doesn't have a frame between. Block stun is different than hitstun. Also, you can hitconfirm on block, 236L is a bad hit confirm because it can easily be crossovered.

[Llama3Lord]

"hitconfirming" = doing the move on reaction to HITTING the opponent.
if they are block your normal and you cancel into 236L that is not a hitconfirm because you are neither hitting nor confirming

[Llama3Lord]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

No, the problem is I have spent a lot of time learning, from both mechanical and knowledge of combos. The problem is, I guess one wrong time, I am in a corner and dead.

Clearly you haven't if you're whining about being stuck in S. Sound like you make mistakes in neutral and then get blown up for having bad defense.

[Cinnamoroll]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

You're lietrally wrong, you can crossover the 236l even on hitconfirm. Just because something combos doesn't mean it doesn't have a frame between. Block stun is different than hitstun. Also, you can hitconfirm on block, 236L is a bad hit confirm because it can easily be crossovered.

Tell me you don't know what hit confirming is without telling me you don't know what hit confirming is.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Llama3Lord:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

No, the problem is I have spent a lot of time learning, from both mechanical and knowledge of combos. The problem is, I guess one wrong time, I am in a corner and dead.

Clearly you haven't if you're whining about being stuck in S. Sound like you make mistakes in neutral and then get blown up for having bad defense.

I am not whining about being in S, I am whining about how this game feels imbalanced as ♥♥♥♥ and I can point to how Ferry plays as to why it is. I can literally block for 30 seconds tech throws etc and still die because of one mistake.

I never once said I should be better ranked, I said that this game makes it feel like you have to play a lot better than your opponent to yield the same results as characters like Ferry.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Llama3Lord:

"hitconfirming" = doing the move on reaction to HITTING the opponent.
if they are block your normal and you cancel into 236L that is not a hitconfirm because you are neither hitting nor confirming

No, hitconfirming is an attack you do to CONFIRM you got the hit.

For example, in SF you might do a lp into lp, the 2nd lp is the hit confirm. The hit to confirm you have actually hit your opponent.

[Cinnamoroll]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

No, hitconfirming is an attack you do to CONFIRM you got the hit.

No, it really isn't LMAOOO
https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Hit%20Confirm

[Manslayer]

Performing an attack, seeing that your attack successfully hit, and then reacting to this information by continuing the combo. That is to say, you "confirm" that your first attack hit before you launch further attacks, and if the attack was blocked instead, you stop and don't follow through with anything else. This is important because, usually, you will be canceling into a move that would be unsafe if it was blocked, so you only want to do it if it won't get you killed.
Read it throughly. "Performing an attack, seeing that your attack successfully hit, then reacting. That means it is the SECOND attack in a string, to confirm your first attack hit. YOu can hit confirm into a block.