Small Adjustments suggestions for Versusia.

[Lecorbak]

I feel like versusia needs small minor changes to be up to what she needs to be.
Before I'm talking about it, don't get me wrong, I think the character is good and fun to play, even if she is never changed.

The changes I propose are on the same line of all the changes that were made in this big update that is 1.50.


First : Her Anti-Air Special, Nimbus (623L/H)

Normally, if you do Nimbus, then use your buff for the follow-up jump, then you can use J.H to make you opponent fall with you and then combo with M or H auto-combo into whatever.
The trick with this combo is that the timing of the J.H is extremely specific (like 2 or 3 frames, I don't know).
It is SO specific that this combo is barely usable at all in real matches situation.
Even really good players will have a hard time using it at all. I remember watching a lot of Diaphone matches for example with her, and I haven't seen it using it once in real matches, despite him knowing the combo.

Most of the time you either use J.H too soon and you whiff your next attack, or you're doing too late and your opponent goes out of the combo.
And I think it's a shame because this combo, when succeeded, is super sick, but due to the overcomplexity of the timing, it is unusable, and you'd rather just do auto-combo -> 5U -> auto-combo -> 214H -> corner instead, which is a combo that people are going to get bored real quick.

So my suggestion is simple : simplify the timing of this combo to work properly by a few frames, like having a window of 3 or 4 more frames to make the J.H link more easily with M or H auto-combos.
It won't make the character stronger, but it would let players do actual sick combos, which will make versusia players happy + gives sickier matches overall.


Second : Her DP, Ultimate Nimbus (623U)

IMO, if her reversal DP hits, she should ALWAYS automatically get the second hit (the hard knockdown), instead of whiffing the second hit sometimes, depending of the distance when used.


Third : her buff, Celestial Dominion (5U)

The problem of Versusia right now is that the rounds start with versusia not having a buff from the start.
This buff is essential to her gameplay, without it, she lacks too many options.
Activating her buff is slow, which means that there's a high chance that when the round starts, and considering that you also don't have any other resources as well, the opponent is just gonna rushdown on you with you having way too limited options.
It sometimes leads to versusia losing like half of her life before she has time to activate her buff once.

Most of your options when the round starts are :
- Medium Nimbus (623M) as a really fast poke, which gives you the time to activate your buff on hit (and sometimes on block).
possibly her best option, but also really predictable, so at higher level, your opponents may be tempted to just forward dodge the attack and punish you.
- Low Anitya (22L), kinda slow and loses to some opponent's options, but gives distance which can give you the time to activate your buff
- aggressive options like 66L or J.U, very dangerous honestly.
- 5L, really quick, but very low range, so not the best at the start of a round.
- 5H, really slow and punishable, but good range and can lead to a 2-hit combo that gives you time to activate your buff
- 2M, one of her best poke that can be followed by any specials on hit, that will generally give you time to buff.
- 2U, ok range, but hard knockdown the enemy, which gives you time to buff
- backdash, gives you some time to think about your next move, checking what your opponent does.
- 5U, trying to activate your buff anyway (really risky), if you think your opponent is gonna play defensively (like trying to block her nimbus)

I feel like 623H, 2M or backdash are the only real viable options at round start, and this is IMO problematic.

So I'm proposing a few ways of how this could be fixed.

- One of the most simple solution would be to give her a free buff at the start of the round.
It would surely fix the overall issue with it, but I think a lot of people would be against it. maybe it would be too strong ?
- Another one would be to give an automatic buff after a grab, rewarding players for playing risky, kinda like Jamie in SF6.
It won't fix her problem at the start of the round, but would reward more aggressive gameplay.
- Last option, and I think this one would probably be the best : you don't change the animation of the buff, but the buff activates BEFORE the end of the animation (not necessary at frame 1 but at least sooner than now).
In this case, you get the buff, even if you get hit, and your opponent will still have the possibility to get free hits on you.

[BigScug A.K.A Heroic Mr. Piss]

Originally posted by Lecorbak:

Originally posted by Vaducar:

regular combo does 60%, nice job devs

you haven't seen siegfried then.

Siegfried was an interesting arcade experience. I went in semi blind so i didn't know how much his 5U buff was, only that it went to three. So when i dealt 30% with like 1 auto combo i lost my marbles. I assume in online it's much harder to safely maintain a 3 tho.

[Gloom]

Originally posted by LEOPALDON FOR GGST:

Originally posted by Lecorbak:

you haven't seen siegfried then.

Siegfried was an interesting arcade experience. I went in semi blind so i didn't know how much his 5U buff was, only that it went to three. So when i dealt 30% with like 1 auto combo i lost my marbles. I assume in online it's much harder to safely maintain a 3 tho.

In B and A ranks most people don't even maintain one...

[Gloom]

From fighting many Versusia players it seems to me every fight is an uphill battle regardless of who I use. She has too much health, its too easy to get her buff and too many of her attacks on plus on block. Combined with her full screen presence, speed and long pokes its just not fun to play against her.

Is anyone else having better success fighting against her?

[Lecorbak]

Originally posted by Gloom:

From fighting many Versusia players it seems to me every fight is an uphill battle regardless of who I use. She has too much health, its too easy to get her buff and too many of her attacks on plus on block. Combined with her full screen presence, speed and long pokes its just not fun to play against her.

Is anyone else having better success fighting against her?

she's not fast at all. she has 0 mobility and her only quick moves are her anti-airs, or has to use EX moves, which can be easily blocked.
her anti-air pokes can easily be countered with well timed forward evasion.
66L pressure don't let her get her buff.
when she's on you, be patient and block everything, at some point, it'll be your turn to attack.

[Gloom]

She has high acceleration when dashing which can easily close the gap after she blows you away and her jabs are longer and/or faster than many of the characters. She can easily outzone Eustace and keeping up 66L pressure with a character like Vaseraga is hard.

Maybe its because I haven't used any of the faster characters since the patch went live, but I reiterate she is the only character I am having this much trouble against at the moment. I only consistently win against the people that don't use her effectively at all.

[Rei]

Originally posted by Gloom:

She has high acceleration when dashing which can easily close the gap after she blows you away and her jabs are longer and/or faster than many of the characters. She can easily outzone Eustace and keeping up 66L pressure with a character like Vaseraga is hard.

Maybe its because I haven't used any of the faster characters since the patch went live, but I reiterate she is the only character I am having this much trouble against at the moment. I only consistently win against the people that don't use her effectively at all.

Speaking as someone who has her at S++4 and a few other characters in that rank area.

You have BC to get her off you if she get's in your face like Leco said previously you just need to learn how to play patient against her.
Her pillars do not reach full screen (pretty much back up in the corner if you need to) unless she spends meter which is easily spot dodgeable due to wind up or uses Heavy version. I have to reiterate going full screen since you said Vas has trouble just back off a bit to get your buff up then make your way in patiently. Abuse your command walk up when you have stock, you don't need to instantly act, wait a bit see how Versusia reacts to you walking up and then throw out a move accordingly.
As for Eustace all the matches I've played have been pretty even zoning wise, same instance Eustace fireball actually reaches full screen while Versussy doesn't unless she does what was stated above.
I don't play either character but that's just some of the strats they do against me. And it's to be expected there's certain MUs that thrive against each other Vas is one of the ones that struggle.
Some general things to keep in mind below:
Use a mix of 66L, stagger buttons, with grabs or CHs in between if you're up close.
Her 2H is on the slower side as long as you're not doing obvious jump ins and use your characters actual good jump in move (a lot of characters have those for example Bea JH reaches down very far and can crush a lot of 2H animation before invuln comes out).
If you know the Versusia you're fighting abuses 5H>5H follow up block the first hit spot dodge the second for easy punish. Or if they do it close enough block both hits and you can grab punish her.
As for her acceleration on dash yeah it's fast when she get's going but you can def do a far reaching poke if you're aware enough.
2U is -13 a lot of Versussy players like to do 2L>2L>2U if they do no follow up If the end up using buffed 5u and try to push pressure further pay attention to what special they end it on.
2M is annoying to get through but it is -3 on block and +1 on hit, if they do no follow ups with it and spaced it bad, technically still your turn.
Try rolling through her spheres instead of spot dodging if you're trying to walk her down. When I play against her on my Narmaya or Bea I do a mix of rolling forward and just walking backawards.
All versions of Samsara are minus w/out 5U follow up if they don't spend, it's your turn. You can usually punish H version with a 5L into auto combo>whatever combo fits the place on screen you're at currently, if it reaches far enough If not I usually do 2M into RS punish (but this is obviously depending on your characters buttons)
All versions of pillar are minus except for U
All versions of nimbus are minus if no follow up, if they try to empty follow up you, you can grab her/punish her with a fast button.
She's a hybrid zoner so fighting her should feel annoying. Again be patient and wait your turn, know when to be the aggressor in an interaction. Try to lab certain situations against her if you find yourself struggling with a match up.
Plus it's still barely been over a week since she dropped, give it time to learn the MU.

Edit:
Another thing I highly recommend is try looking around Youtube/replays of high level Vas or Eustace players in game and see what they do against Versusia.

[Gloom]

Thanks that is helpful advice, I'll see how much I can incorporate it.