Why this over any other fighting game?

[Inuakurei]

I'm genuinely curious, because I just don't see the appeal besides the IP. I was told this was a good fighting game that didn't get it's proper chance because the previous version came out at an inopportune time.

However playing this for the past few hours, I just don't see it? It feels incredibly stiff to play for an "anime fighter". No dash canceling, no air dash, 5L 5L 5L auto combos, and... some these mechanics just make no sense.

High / Low mix seems almost non existent? Ok, so its more of a strike/throw type of game, that's fine. But then throw teching is also done by just mashing? Alright, so the basics of strike / throw kind of don't work here. So to make up for this, there's a guard break mechanic? But isn't that just strike / throw with extra steps for no reason?

Then theres the combo system. From gameplay it looked like fun, but actually playing it is... awkward? Like it feels just one step about Fantasy Strike in how simple it is. Any button goes into a 3 hit combo, that goes into a skill, which then goes into another variation of the 3 hit combo, and end with a skill again. Thats the long and short of it. People called this "deep"? Combine this with the simple inputs option and it's really obvious it's designed to not be "deep" at all.

I heard they changed a lot from the base Granblue Versus. I'm going to take a wild guess and say they made offense faster and better? If I'm right, I can tell because it feels like a game that isn't designed to be "fast" but is trying to be "fast".

So people who like this game, tell me why. It's pretty, fun to watch, but playing it feels like playing in molasses. I'll give it a little more time but, iuno. Not great atm.

[Squidvasion]

Manslayer eredeti hozzászólása:

Squidvasion eredeti hozzászólása:

reread it again, you'll find it.

Also you're just looking at the bare minimum needed to do combos, again i will say it, auto comboing in the corner isn't optimal. shout it to the moon all you want it wont make it true. each character has their own unique optimal combo routes that are harder to pull off and more fun/interesting. for the casual new player, they can spam auto's the same on each character to get a bare bones basic idea of what their attacks look like.

as for the whole feeling aspect, sure i can understand that part, personal preference and all.

I literally don't care, optimal or not. If I am doing 40% or 55%~ it doesn't feel good. No ♥♥♥♥ if I play Narmaya I am better off doing something around like MMM (free)236H U M (dawn) 236h u j.214h H 236236h or just end in there for Oki dropping H and 236236. The thing is, why do anything that optimal and difficult for like 10-15% more effort. But that's the point a simple comboing path to that is the same thing using mmm 236h u m 236h mm 263l.

See, its this right here. Ok so you don't care about doing more damage, fine, but that just means you're completely ignoring the depth of the game you claim isn't there. If you want to ignore doing manual combos for more damage then all the power to you, but you can't also say their is no depth to the characters at the same time, that's all.

You ask why do anything that optimal and difficult for 10-15% more effort and to that i say, isn't that exactly what people are arguing is missing from this game? Maybe im missing something here

[Manslayer]

Squidvasion eredeti hozzászólása:

Manslayer eredeti hozzászólása:

I literally don't care, optimal or not. If I am doing 40% or 55%~ it doesn't feel good. No ♥♥♥♥ if I play Narmaya I am better off doing something around like MMM (free)236H U M (dawn) 236h u j.214h H 236236h or just end in there for Oki dropping H and 236236. The thing is, why do anything that optimal and difficult for like 10-15% more effort. But that's the point a simple comboing path to that is the same thing using mmm 236h u m 236h mm 263l.

See, its this right here. Ok so you don't care about doing more damage, fine, but that just means you're completely ignoring the depth of the game you claim isn't there. If you want to ignore doing manual combos for more damage then all the power to you, but you can't also say their is no depth to the characters at the same time, that's all.

You ask why do anything that optimal and difficult for 10-15% more effort and to that i say, isn't that exactly what people are arguing is missing from this game? Maybe im missing something here

I am saying the work is not worth the pay out. If I play a game like blazblue, you can do some basic stuff and do 20% of someones life, but if you put in a lot more practice and effort you can start to do 60-80% of someones life, very clearly a large pay off. The difference here, that same effort in blazblue does 10-15% more damage (Equalling 30-40% of someones life) with the high effort only yielding 10-15% more damage. (Equalling 50-55% of someone's health). I want to note, I am not counting raging strikes in any of these combos as those alone deal basically 10% easily on their own.

Ignoring combos entirely, because combos are a very very small part of depth in any fighting game, this game doesn;t have many interesting systems to explore to create interesting dynamics. dash attacks are overtuned, 2h is overtuned and raging strike is overtuned. That's pretty much it, this game is designed to be basic, so basic it is.

[Squidvasion]

Manslayer eredeti hozzászólása:

Squidvasion eredeti hozzászólása:

See, its this right here. Ok so you don't care about doing more damage, fine, but that just means you're completely ignoring the depth of the game you claim isn't there. If you want to ignore doing manual combos for more damage then all the power to you, but you can't also say their is no depth to the characters at the same time, that's all.

You ask why do anything that optimal and difficult for 10-15% more effort and to that i say, isn't that exactly what people are arguing is missing from this game? Maybe im missing something here

I am saying the work is not worth the pay out. If I play a game like blazblue, you can do some basic stuff and do 20% of someones life, but if you put in a lot more practice and effort you can start to do 60-80% of someones life, very clearly a large pay off. The difference here, that same effort in blazblue does 10-15% more damage (Equalling 30-40% of someones life) with the high effort only yielding 10-15% more damage. (Equalling 50-55% of someone's health). I want to note, I am not counting raging strikes in any of these combos as those alone deal basically 10% easily on their own.

Ignoring combos entirely, because combos are a very very small part of depth in any fighting game, this game doesn;t have many interesting systems to explore to create interesting dynamics. dash attacks are overtuned, 2h is overtuned and raging strike is overtuned. That's pretty much it, this game is designed to be basic, so basic it is.

You're right about dash attacks being a problem, i wont argue that, they are definitely taking me some time to get used to. i've lost count how many times i've been frame trapped by 66L because my brain can't wrap around the concept of a universal frame trap that moves you forward on each character.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

So to give a proper answer... GBVS is essentially a callback to Street Fighter III Third Strike, except it's made so that beginners can play it as well. The way spacing works, the throw vs frametrap game, the footsies, etc. all call back upon that game. Yes there's characters that break the norm, but generally what I said holds true. That is the charm of the game that has drawn a lot of players in in Japan. In US and Europe... not so much.

Now, GBVSR has made some changes that are actually things found in faster fighting games, like Hokuto no Ken. While there's no such thing as boost cancels, there are alpha counters and unblockables, the dash attacks have also increased the speed of the game significantly where it more or less matches HnK. I would even dare say that this game is a mix between the two previously mentioned FGs with a tad of GGXXAC mixed in if we're considering the forcebreaks and sheer speed at which the game can be played.

Make no mistake, this game plays FASTER than most other FGs out there, it's faster than Rev2 and may even match GGXXAC+R in speed. All this together does make for a particularly intensive and fun game.

There are neutral skips in this game and some characters rely on them. But they cannot be called upon on a whim as opponents can punish them, especially if they see them coming. In some cases matchups are literally about one character looking for an opening for his/her neutral skip as the other character simply has better neutral tools. And this is not unlike the older fightinggames.

So as far as the combat goes, everything that needs to be there is there for an enjoyable game. Now if we're looking at singleplayer content... you're better off buying the original GBVS or an entirely different game that actually has singleplayer content. I don't know who calls the shots at Cygames, but whoever decided to strip the RPG content and replace it with a badly written story mode with NO replay value (and where misaligned subs indicate you never were supposed to reach the end) needs to be fired from a cannon.

[EnriKO]

Inuakurei eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm genuinely curious, because I just don't see the appeal besides the IP. I was told this was a good fighting game that didn't get it's proper chance because the previous version came out at an inopportune time.

However playing this for the past few hours, I just don't see it? It feels incredibly stiff to play for an "anime fighter". No dash canceling, no air dash, 5L 5L 5L auto combos, and... some these mechanics just make no sense.

High / Low mix seems almost non existent? Ok, so its more of a strike/throw type of game, that's fine. But then throw teching is also done by just mashing? Alright, so the basics of strike / throw kind of don't work here. So to make up for this, there's a guard break mechanic? But isn't that just strike / throw with extra steps for no reason?

Then theres the combo system. From gameplay it looked like fun, but actually playing it is... awkward? Like it feels just one step about Fantasy Strike in how simple it is. Any button goes into a 3 hit combo, that goes into a skill, which then goes into another variation of the 3 hit combo, and end with a skill again. Thats the long and short of it. People called this "deep"? Combine this with the simple inputs option and it's really obvious it's designed to not be "deep" at all.

I heard they changed a lot from the base Granblue Versus. I'm going to take a wild guess and say they made offense faster and better? If I'm right, I can tell because it feels like a game that isn't designed to be "fast" but is trying to be "fast".

So people who like this game, tell me why. It's pretty, fun to watch, but playing it feels like playing in molasses. I'll give it a little more time but, iuno. Not great atm.

well what can i say about the question and the marked answer...
first off sounds like you judge a game base off its looks. just because the game has anime aesthetic doesn't mean it has to be played like a ultrafast comboing airdashing game which is how most games with anime looks were...

[Infevo]

It highly depends what you want from a fighting game. If you are enjoying games like Strive and Centralfiction and did not play many other fighting games beside that, then you may be conditioned into appreciating offense over defense and never might have really learned how to play fighting games. You get away with solid pressure in those two games and these games are fairly enjoyable even without spending much time labbing to play around fundamentals. In that sense GBFVS always was less casual and noobs would not be able to spot all the nuances that play into a good gameplan or tactical decision making.

I played many fighting games over the years and I rarely was so engaged in the combo system. Especially since I play Narmaya. I have two times as many cooldowns to track, I have to always be mindful of the stance I am in and the framedata and ranges of my whiff punishes, H punishes but specifically L starters. I have to specifically become creative about my corner carry depending on where I get the confirm, what resources I have and what I am willing to spend in order to achieve whatever (close the round, hard knockdown into oki, reset/setplay, quick punish, corner carry, max damage).

You want high/low, left/right shenanigans? Well, these do exist in GB to a degree but since it is less important it becomes more of an effective surprise option to throw opponents off during their defense. But if you really prefer a fighting game which rewards offense much more than defense, then you will be happy with MK1. It is all about hard to block overhead/low setups and safe permanent pressure with assist calls. Some characters call their assist (kameo) from a safe distance and hitconfirm full screen/mid screen off a hit. It is basically heavily weighted RPS in favor of the attacker. And then, of course, you get plenty of neutral skips in MK1 you might like, since you do not seem to enjoy the core concepts of fighting games.

[Shark]

I don't like fighting games in general. I don't even like anime style so much either. But Granblue fits the bill for me to get into, because it doesn't have overtly complex systems, over the top mobility, incredibly technical combos, or lengthy move lists. I like the simple input system and it makes perfect sense for a game like Granblue. Doing whirlwinds of directional inputs makes sense for games like Guilty Gear, which can get pretty technical. But in Granblue its much more simple even with technical inputs enabled. Doing QCF this and thats are honestly just arbitrary when you just wanna throw a fireball or do an uppercut.

Not every fighting game has to be for the elite crowd. This is the first FG I've been into since Street Fighter Third Strike. I would never call myself a fighting game player, so please understand that its really nice that theres a FG out there for me and people like me.

[Souriel]

beginner friendly
free

[Infevo]

Shark eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't like fighting games in general. I don't even like anime style so much either. But Granblue fits the bill for me to get into, because it doesn't have overtly complex systems, over the top mobility, incredibly technical combos, or lengthy move lists. I like the simple input system and it makes perfect sense for a game like Granblue. Doing whirlwinds of directional inputs makes sense for games like Guilty Gear, which can get pretty technical. But in Granblue its much more simple even with technical inputs enabled. Doing QCF this and thats are honestly just arbitrary when you just wanna throw a fireball or do an uppercut.

Not every fighting game has to be for the elite crowd. This is the first FG I've been into since Street Fighter Third Strike. I would never call myself a fighting game player, so please understand that its really nice that theres a FG out there for me and people like me.

I think it is the best fighting game for beginners to really get into fighting games as it also builds good habbits and helps you with fundamentals a lot you can apply in other games. Somewhere along the way that got lost with modern fighting games. Even Street Fighter and Tekken, unfortunately. Everything is about neutral skips, cheap and cheesy stuff and knowledge checks all day.
In Granblue you can jump on and have fun relatively quickly. Once you learn a new concept and manage to consistently apply it in your matches, you will immediately climb in rank and this is how you build actual skill. Imho, this also is the most rewarding and sensical feedback loop a fighting game can give a newer player. But also veterans get rewarded for coming in with a solid background in fundamentals.

[Xallorev]

Inuakurei eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm genuinely curious, because I just don't see the appeal besides the IP. I was told this was a good fighting game that didn't get it's proper chance because the previous version came out at an inopportune time.

However playing this for the past few hours, I just don't see it? It feels incredibly stiff to play for an "anime fighter". No dash canceling, no air dash, 5L 5L 5L auto combos, and... some these mechanics just make no sense.

High / Low mix seems almost non existent? Ok, so its more of a strike/throw type of game, that's fine. But then throw teching is also done by just mashing? Alright, so the basics of strike / throw kind of don't work here. So to make up for this, there's a guard break mechanic? But isn't that just strike / throw with extra steps for no reason?

Then theres the combo system. From gameplay it looked like fun, but actually playing it is... awkward? Like it feels just one step about Fantasy Strike in how simple it is. Any button goes into a 3 hit combo, that goes into a skill, which then goes into another variation of the 3 hit combo, and end with a skill again. Thats the long and short of it. People called this "deep"? Combine this with the simple inputs option and it's really obvious it's designed to not be "deep" at all.

I heard they changed a lot from the base Granblue Versus. I'm going to take a wild guess and say they made offense faster and better? If I'm right, I can tell because it feels like a game that isn't designed to be "fast" but is trying to be "fast".

So people who like this game, tell me why. It's pretty, fun to watch, but playing it feels like playing in molasses. I'll give it a little more time but, iuno. Not great atm.

if you're looking for a game that won't die after 2-3 months, I guess this isn't for you. Try bigger franchise like tekken or SF6 you will be fine.

[Absolute 0ne]

People get caught up in auto combos, I only really use them mid screen. They are there mostly to help you confirm stuff and so new players can actually do something.

It is far better to do links and juggles. More than most other games, you want every hit to be as big as it can be, so one hit H/M juggle buttons are optimal. Corner auto combos are more what you see beginners doing.

Smash has auto basic combos, but you wouldn't say the gameplay revolves around it either.

Actually the triple attack is really bad for both damage and blocking pressure. You want to use them as little as possible.
Mid screen, they are there as filler to push people closer to the corner, but even then there are often better options.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

Absolute 0ne eredeti hozzászólása:

People get caught up in auto combos, I only really use them mid screen. They are there mostly to help you confirm stuff and so new players can actually do something.

It is far better to do links and juggles. More than most other games, you want every hit to be as big as it can be, so one hit H/M juggle buttons are optimal. Corner auto combos are more what you see beginners doing.

Smash has auto basic combos, but you wouldn't say the gameplay revolves around it either.

Actually the triple attack is really bad for both damage and blocking pressure. You want to use them as little as possible.
Mid screen, they are there as filler to push people closer to the corner, but even then there are often better options.

This used to be true in GBVS, but in GBVSR the second and third attack of the string deal as much damage as many specials in the game and they will outperform said specials in damage.

[Infevo]

reaVerNL@Rumbleᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ eredeti hozzászólása:

Absolute 0ne eredeti hozzászólása:

People get caught up in auto combos, I only really use them mid screen. They are there mostly to help you confirm stuff and so new players can actually do something.

It is far better to do links and juggles. More than most other games, you want every hit to be as big as it can be, so one hit H/M juggle buttons are optimal. Corner auto combos are more what you see beginners doing.

Smash has auto basic combos, but you wouldn't say the gameplay revolves around it either.

Actually the triple attack is really bad for both damage and blocking pressure. You want to use them as little as possible.
Mid screen, they are there as filler to push people closer to the corner, but even then there are often better options.

This used to be true in GBVS, but in GBVSR the second and third attack of the string deal as much damage as many specials in the game and they will outperform said specials in damage.

Let's differentiate. One should certainly not overuse the whole triple sequence as true blockstrings. But it can be smart to condition opponents. Also you might want to go for the overhead and low as 3rd hit when they turtle too much. Sometime I stagger one L and dash in between the first L of triple because it is so much pllus. This is also not too useful other than poking them into reversals or spot dodges one can then punish. usually I go for two out of three and then throw if they block and go for a frame trap after the second attack if they mash. This can lead into a combo.

Midscreen I prefer using the full triple strike most of the time for corner carry alone. Whether on block or on hit in combos.

And some combos deal more damage if you maximize the hits from triple strike. It highly depends how many juggles are left and how much scaling already applies.

But yeah, this game does not have many links between normals. But mostly the biggest damage comes from chaining as many Hs cancelled into H specials. as possible. And of course meter use and Bravery points can help close the rounds if you do not have the SSBA.

[Inuakurei]

Ok so. After playing around in high A rank for a while I do retract some of my feelings. I can see how some people might find GBVSR more enjoyable than say, Strive or SF. It's not quite as trash as I first thought. I like it better than SF at least. It still feels super weird sometimes though, and I think I know why.

It seems like half of the cast is playing a different game. Its like some characters like Vas, Gran, Matera, Katalina, and such are playing a variation of Street Fighter; while others like Lancelot, Seox, Siegfried, and Neir are playing a toned down Guilty Gear. It sorta feels like they wanted to make this game faster, but forgot to bring some of the cast up to that speed.

I'm also seeing why people are annoyed by 66L. Half of the neutral in my games are decided by random 66L. Then that leads to stagger pressure back into 66L; where guessing wrong leads to 30% + oki. It feels super weird in a game like this.

I'm still not that keen on the combo system either. It's not quite as rigid as I first thought but it doesn't "flow" well either.

I am having more fun than before though. So that's something.

[Infevo]

Inuakurei eredeti hozzászólása:

Ok so. After playing around in high A rank for a while I do retract some of my feelings. I can see how some people might find GBVSR more enjoyable than say, Strive or SF. It's not quite as trash as I first thought. I like it better than SF at least. It still feels super weird sometimes though, and I think I know why.

It seems like half of the cast is playing a different game. Its like some characters like Vas, Gran, Matera, Katalina, and such are playing a variation of Street Fighter; while others like Lancelot, Seox, Siegfried, and Neir are playing a toned down Guilty Gear. It sorta feels like they wanted to make this game faster, but forgot to bring some of the cast up to that speed.

I'm also seeing why people are annoyed by 66L. Half of the neutral in my games are decided by random 66L. Then that leads to stagger pressure back into 66L; where guessing wrong leads to 30% + oki. It feels super weird in a game like this.

I'm still not that keen on the combo system either. It's not quite as rigid as I first thought but it doesn't "flow" well either.

I am having more fun than before though. So that's something.

I can agree with you on the balance points. Hopefully, they can spend some time tweaking the more modern characters in line with the game's philosophy.

On the combo system I still disagree. Rising demands a lot more from the player when it comes to situational awareness. In Strive, Blazblue and SF you get away by learning a number of permutations from 2-3 different starters and you just may be doing a different combo in the corner than midscreen. In Rising you always have to decide how much you value corner carry over resources and how close you are to a chipping out the opponent past the guts mechanic is consumed. Also spending 50 meter raw may sometimes be a huge investment as a flip when you have 100 meter for an SBA but about to get your SSBA. Then of course you can extend combos with Bravery Points which may in return make you more susceptible to damage the next turn.

I think there is quite a lot to it if you think about it. But I get that you might miss the stronger offensive options for opening up the opponents coming from GG or BB. I love Strive and I played a lot BB a decade ago. But what they specifically did to Strive I cannot agree with. They made it more offense based with the recent updates than ever before.