F2P version is DOOMED

[twitch.tv/DarienLoL]

who is in clear mind will gonna buy this game for full price to get ur ass beaten by 4 years old playears ? ye, this f2p version with only one characters availible is doomed. And dont even dare to say there is gonna be rotated charrcters every week. In fighting games u need alteast couple week to spend in practice to be able to move with one character properly.
How F2P version should looks like. I have couple variants: half of the characters availible all the time. All characters availible and monetize skin and colors (best version). U can unlock characters as playing games as f2p.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Trainingmacro@ttvᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ:

Originally posted by Fruit Chinpo Samurai:

This is the worst take i've ever seen. It's either you're getting paid to talk trash about this game or you're just too broke and only want everything for free. Well what can you expect from TTV username. Another classic behaviour from TTV

Well not everyone is living under a government that prints money 24/7 you know. Unlike you, we actually need to work for that money and that means that our time spent working is valuable. And this applies to most potential players out there. So why would you expect them to pay money for a game they don't know which very well may end up being a game they won't play?

I don't think you understand what the money printed is spent on. Certainly, my government did not pay for a single of my videogames. In fact, it prints money to give it away to 3rd world countries, spend it on wars or corrupt big business.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by Trainingmacro@ttvᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ:

Well not everyone is living under a government that prints money 24/7 you know. Unlike you, we actually need to work for that money and that means that our time spent working is valuable. And this applies to most potential players out there. So why would you expect them to pay money for a game they don't know which very well may end up being a game they won't play?

I don't think you understand what the money printed is spent on. Certainly, my government did not pay for a single of my videogames. In fact, it prints money to give it away to 3rd world countries, spend it on wars or corrupt big business.

Don't forget the crackpipes. But the way he was talking about the game suggests to me he's some kind of benefactor of that money as well. I mean he calls people broke like it's some kind of insult. I doubt he has any serious appreciation for the effort people put into accumulating said funds.

[Klisk]

A fool and their money.

$50 should include the first character pass, simple as that. Either that or the base price needs to come down. These games need to incentivize an early audience, without that the interest wanes fast. Rollback hasn't saved any of the other non-Capcom fighters out there.

Strive is held up by it's legacy, and even then barely. Granblue's IP isn't drawing new players into the genre.

[DBZ_KAKAROT]

Originally posted by Klisk:

A fool and their money.

$50 should include the first character pass, simple as that. Either that or the base price needs to come down. These games need to incentive an early audience, without that the interest wanes fast. Rollback hasn't saved any of the other non-Capcom fighters out there.

I'll do you one better, everyone who already bought GBVS should get the base game free, then all the extra characters and features that are not already included in GBVS should be a $20 upgrade, that's me being generous. This game is going to flop so hard, the writing is all over the wall.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Klisk:

A fool and their money.

$50 should include the first character pass, simple as that. Either that or the base price needs to come down. These games need to incentive an early audience, without that the interest wanes fast. Rollback hasn't saved any of the other non-Capcom fighters out there.

Strive is held up by it's legacy, and even then barely. Granblue's IP isn't drawing new players into the genre.

The genre is unpopular. And this is also why time has yet to reveal if the F2P model really is capable of drawing more people in. We only can speculate if that business model, by extension, also would generate more income.

Imo, the publishers have to take the risk while not expecting it to pay off right away. The community has to be grown. The entry level into trying games out must be lowered as much as possible because people are stupid with money. They will buy 1000 games on Steam and play 1% of them over the course of their lives. But they won't even consider paying a single dime for a game of a genre they never bothered even trying out.

[EnriKO]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by Klisk:

A fool and their money.

$50 should include the first character pass, simple as that. Either that or the base price needs to come down. These games need to incentive an early audience, without that the interest wanes fast. Rollback hasn't saved any of the other non-Capcom fighters out there.

Strive is held up by it's legacy, and even then barely. Granblue's IP isn't drawing new players into the genre.

The genre is unpopular. And this is also why time has yet to reveal if the F2P model really is capable of drawing more people in. We only can speculate if that business model, by extension, also would generate more income.

Imo, the publishers have to take the risk while not expecting it to pay off right away. The community has to be grown. The entry level into trying games out must be lowered as much as possible because people are stupid with money. They will buy 1000 games on Steam and play 1% of them over the course of their lives. But they won't even consider paying a single dime for a game of a genre they never bothered even trying out.

few tried that already i think, brawhalla, fantasy strike, maybe others, those names didnt impress me much i think, so....

publishers have to take risk and make them f2p.... thats a big ask imo, let me recount similarities of big f2p games so far: a gameplay loop/treadmill that will suck ppl in, eventually open them up and make them buy mtx contents, then prepare trucks load of free/paid content for every sort of potential buyers from pennies pinching blokes to the whales, then new gameplay content or doing whatever to keep them engaged, then more mtx candy to sell them along the way... and the loop goes on. all that require big team big money big effort big accountability big who−know−whatelse. make profit in the long run is okay if it SUREly goes that way, or othewise its a nope from business standpoint imo.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by EnriKO:

Originally posted by Infevo:

The genre is unpopular. And this is also why time has yet to reveal if the F2P model really is capable of drawing more people in. We only can speculate if that business model, by extension, also would generate more income.

Imo, the publishers have to take the risk while not expecting it to pay off right away. The community has to be grown. The entry level into trying games out must be lowered as much as possible because people are stupid with money. They will buy 1000 games on Steam and play 1% of them over the course of their lives. But they won't even consider paying a single dime for a game of a genre they never bothered even trying out.

few tried that already i think, brawhalla, fantasy strike, maybe others, those names didnt impress me much i think, so....

publishers have to take risk and make them f2p.... thats a big ask imo, let me recount similarities of big f2p games so far: a gameplay loop/treadmill that will suck ppl in, eventually open them up and make them buy mtx contents, then prepare trucks load of free/paid content for every sort of potential buyers from pennies pinching blokes to the whales, then new gameplay content or doing whatever to keep them engaged, then more mtx candy to sell them along the way... and the loop goes on. all that require big team big money big effort big accountability big who−know−whatelse. make profit in the long run is okay if it SUREly goes that way, or othewise its a nope from business standpoint imo.

There are plenty of F2P games that are super successful but people just do not talk about all the failures. In the end it mostly comes down to the game design and whether you can retain your customers. Microtransactions carry these games with ease once a critical amount of players can be drawn into the loop. But you cannot equate a game like League of Legends that has a lifecycle of 13 years already + no end in sight with a game that is meant to be entertained with support for 3-5 years (or one console generation). In that regard, I may 100% be wrong. In fact, I am fine with the way everything is now and as I would not want to play a fighting game for 10 years straight anyway. I like to switch it up. It also gives incentives for learning new things and keeps your mind challenged. Some companies do explore the F2P models in their own way. I welcome if it works out for us all.

[EnriKO]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by EnriKO:

few tried that already i think, brawhalla, fantasy strike, maybe others, those names didnt impress me much i think, so....

publishers have to take risk and make them f2p.... thats a big ask imo, let me recount similarities of big f2p games so far: a gameplay loop/treadmill that will suck ppl in, eventually open them up and make them buy mtx contents, then prepare trucks load of free/paid content for every sort of potential buyers from pennies pinching blokes to the whales, then new gameplay content or doing whatever to keep them engaged, then more mtx candy to sell them along the way... and the loop goes on. all that require big team big money big effort big accountability big who−know−whatelse. make profit in the long run is okay if it SUREly goes that way, or othewise its a nope from business standpoint imo.

There are plenty of F2P games that are super successful but people just do not talk about all the failures. In the end it mostly comes down to the game design and whether you can retain your customers. Microtransactions carry these games with ease once a critical amount of players can be drawn into the loop. But you cannot equate a game like League of Legends that has a lifecycle of 13 years already + no end in sight with a game that is meant to be entertained with support for 3-5 years (or one console generation). In that regard, I may 100% be wrong. In fact, I am fine with the way everything is now and as I would not want to play a fighting game for 10 years straight anyway. I like to switch it up. It also gives incentives for learning new things and keeps your mind challenged. Some companies do explore the F2P models in their own way. I welcome if it works out for us all.

i cant be right either, all just speculating from reality as daydreaming in the business aspect is kinda a no.
and i think it's not just retaining power, but something big might need to be changed about fg's inviting power too as currently the impression of requirement about equipment , the kind of skill and level of play required in order to enjoy fg and majority of gamer's mental is still kinda very stacking against this genre.

all that speculation and yet the genre end up with having one of the most successful aside from the big, understandable titles being one that ask for full price, only available on one hardware and being widely regarded as party game.... and the grandaddy version is still going stronk without support.... and most copycats fizzled out in one way or another.

[Faiyez]

Originally posted by Klisk:

$50 should include the first character pass, simple as that. Either that or the base price needs to come down. These games need to incentivize an early audience, without that the interest wanes fast. Rollback hasn't saved any of the other non-Capcom fighters out there.

The first character pass is the 4 new characters in the base version.

It's hard to take your arguments seriously with games pushing $70 standard regardless of being new or a remake.

You're being unreasonable and you're definitely in the minority. You either don't understand the genre or want to subject it to a different standard. It gets tiring to hear from Internet randos with no development chops and laughable perceptions of how costly it is to implement a single character in a competitive fighting game.

Not being able to recognize and appreciate the fairness of this game relative to actually egregious practices on the industry exposes who the fool is, and who completely lost the plot.

[DBZ_KAKAROT]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

Not being able to recognize and appreciate the fairness of this case exposes who the fool is in here.

You?

[Ninon Joubert]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

You're being unreasonable and you're definitely in the minority. You either don't understand the genre or want to subject it to a different standard. It gets tiring to hear from Internet randos with no development chops and laughable perceptions of how costly it is to implement a single character in a competitive fighting game.

Not being able to recognize and appreciate the fairness of this game relative to actually egregious practices on the industry exposes who the fool is, and who completely lost the plot.

Couldn't have said it better. I completely agree.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

Originally posted by Klisk:

$50 should include the first character pass, simple as that. Either that or the base price needs to come down. These games need to incentivize an early audience, without that the interest wanes fast. Rollback hasn't saved any of the other non-Capcom fighters out there.

The first character pass is the 4 new characters in the base version.

It's hard to take your arguments seriously with games pushing $70 standard regardless of being new or a remake.

You're being unreasonable and you're definitely in the minority. You either don't understand the genre or want to subject it to a different standard. It gets tiring to hear from Internet randos with no development chops and laughable perceptions of how costly it is to implement a single character in a competitive fighting game.

Not being able to recognize and appreciate the fairness of this game relative to actually egregious practices on the industry exposes who the fool is, and who completely lost the plot.

And here you are not understanding that the average consumer simply does not give a damn. You are also ignoring that Cygames distributes this game towards a lot of potential customers that then foot the shared bill. Considering a character would be around a month's worth of work, maybe 3 month's of work you're looking to divide 20k dollars over your consumer base. This is ignoring the reuse of asset and code found for the already existing characters, which significantly reduces that load. So the extra 20 dollars seems to be giving us 6 new characters on the pass which means 25 / 6 = 4.17 dollars per consumer per character. So 20000 / 4.17 = 4797 players footing the bill. In the early stages of release this bill will be footed by the Japanese players alone with ease.

Now, what would you think happens when the initial hype dies and players lose interest? Your playercount goes down the toilet, that means you won't have 4800 buyers and your characters developed will not yield a return on investment. That means development on the game effectively ceases. When the development ceases, the players will eventually just completely lose interest and the game completely dies. Something that has happened to just about every recent fighting game with the exception of a few.

Right now, the practices you hold on to is going to bring the playercount to GBVS level which is below 100 players playing the game. That will not sustain the game or development on the game. To sustain a game you need 20k players as indicated by GGG lead Chris Wilson for PoE. You don't even need these players to always be there, but at least at fixed intervals where you can successfully take their money.

So when you erect a paywall before the point of entry, you effectively make sure that from the players that never touched the game, none of them will return. You then fight a losing battle to keep the interests of consumers who can be extremely unforgiving and may even abandon you through no fault of your own. They may go on hiatus for several years and find that too many characters have been added to the game that they don't want to pay for and just leave the game. You will just lose players.

The free to play model means you don't have that paywall in front of people meaning people can come into the game as well as leave and return as they please. And that means you're more likely to be able to replace leaving players with fresh meat which can then sustain your development efforts through *gasp* completely not overpriced supporter packs. And Raid Shadow Legends has already proven your free to play game doesn't even have to be good.

For someone pretending to know game development you know very little in terms of business or how the average customer thinks. Something tells me that if you indeed did develop games, it was in a previous life and that endeavor has failed you. For you to come in here speaking with some sense of superiority is just laughable. You don't understand who has the money in this equation and you don't understand how people that worked for their money actually think. You fail to account for the genre we're talking about, you do not analyze the competitors out there, of which several have a LOYAL playerbase that have much less issue keeping their players as well as attracting new players and thus far you've shown a severe amount of disrespect towards people that have explained to you carefully what their side of the story is and how the current setting is either holding them or their friends back. You probably just looked at the playercount at the open playtest from last weekend and you figure they'll be there next year or something, a notion that is completely retarded.

[Faiyez]

And yet you were completely clueless about rollback netcode, and you made sure it was apparent that you're clueless.

[EnriKO]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

And yet you were completely clueless about rollback netcode, and you made sure it was apparent that you're clueless.

still waiting for my man to spread the shocking dirty truth to the world.

[[reaVerNL@Rumble]ᚱᛖᚨᚠᛖᚱ]

Originally posted by Faiyez:

And yet you were completely clueless about rollback netcode, and you made sure it was apparent that you're clueless.

When it was implemented into +R I asked exactly how it worked and it works exactly the same way prediction code does in any other game. And if you actually looked into code for other games you'd know this too.