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讨论规则及指引
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I agree that SWL, as a completely separate game was a mistake.
However, the first fatal mistakes occurred in TSW, by making an MMO with solo only instances that also required combat. Hybrids could breeze through those with ease.
However, most hybrid builds could not pass the Gatekeeper so they could participate in end game multiplayer content.
So the original TSW lost a lot of players who designed their toons as specialists, which the end game requires, because they could not pass the solo missions.
Then it lost the hybrids, who made it through the solo stuff just fine, then found that they could not pass the Gatekeeper.
That, in my book, was the idiotic part of TSW's game design, which SWL did not cure.
Then in TSW, Funcom added AEGIS when it implemented Tokyo, which pretty much made Tokyo a ghost town.
While I don't completely agree with the following video about why TSW died: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sewl0u66lQ
It makes some illuminating points.
As one who played Star Wars Galaxies before it died, and wish I had spent more time with before it died, my plan is to spend more time in both SWL and TSW because its story content has never been surpassed in an MMO, and probably never will be again.
But I will do that with hybrid builds and not worry about end game group builds.
SWL is AEGIS on steroids. AEGIS wasn't even that bad compared to leveling up signets, which is EXACTLY the system SWL uses.......for everything. 10 greens make a blue. 10 blues make a purple and on and on.
AEGIS was required to play in Tokyo in TSW. Nothing special is required to play in Tokyo in SWL.
Methods of obtaining Signets are detailed in this guide: http://dulfy.net/2012/08/10/tsw-signets-guide/
Methods of obtaining mats for upgrading your gear in SWL is just play the game however you wish.
The basic, solo method for obtaining gear upgrades in TSW was grinding for whatever currency you needed to have to be able to buy them from the appropriate vendor.
Whatever, while I really dislike a lot of things about SWL compared to TSW, the fact remains that TSW is dead now, and it was before SWL was ever released.
SWL is dying now, too, as an MMO. But you can play it as a solo game just fine. I've mostly completed it solo through most of Tokyo, but haven't reached South Africa yet.
Does TSW have any new content after Tokyo? (that's not a rhetorical question, I really don't know the answer.)
Edited Note: I actually think that the "Death of a Game" link I posted above is a good reason to play either the original TSW or SWL, but not as an MMO, but rather as a single player game, which in my opinion, has the most interesting quests ever in an MMO, but yet can be played solo. And I think that's easier in SWL than TSW, because there are still people playing SWL, so has a means of trading things between players, via its active Auction House.
Nowhere near as robust as TSW used to be, but more robust than TSW is now.
And if you didn't play TSW, it's not as easy to obtain a copy of it as it is SWL, which is free, from Steam.
Apart from that guide being oudated/incomplete on sources, locations, timers and effects and leaving out the easiest and fastest solo ways, the guide already points out there are ways to get blue or epic signets to drop without any update steps. You can also buy finished epic signets from traders if you are okay with using custom gear. Only the highest content in the game really "needs" signets and for that you would need to do Tokyo nightmare dungeons anyway and those just straight up drop 10.8.5 to 10.9.11 gear with blue to epic signets in them.
The guide is simply old and they made it a lot easier to get blue/epic signets without any updating steps, while it was never necessary in the first place. Some of the information in the guide is still valid but a lot of it is not. The guide starts of with telling about Nightmare dungeon lock outs, which alone should have told you how outdated it is. The person you quoted also used that as an example of TSW of the system SWL uses for every single piece of gear. TSW also had ways to skip upgrading anything entirely, except AEGIS. That is why people compare those two, but you still only needed AEGIS grind if you wanted to do the last bit of group content. It was the sign they ran out of content and added grind instead. SWL is the continuation of that.
There are a total of 2 upgrade currencies in TSW which is black bullions and mark of the phanteon (sounds like you referenced the old system with a ton of different tokens). The first one is mainly up to 10.4 and after, the later for only after 10.4. (Additionally QL11 signet kits drop from nightmare raids without any update steps.) You never need to grind that though, since you can use dungeon drops for the entire game, since dungeons straight up drop stuff you can use. Outside of dungeons you did not need anything except quest rewards. The upgradable stuff is just the "custom" variant that give you more control and let's you overgear content. SWL however has gear upgrades as its core system.
The fact remains that people are logging into TSW daily and doing dungeons and sometimes raids.
You can play TSW solo fine and even 100% of the solo content without ever upgrading your gear or grinding anything at all. No dailies or quest repetition needed. You can play through every mission and story part once without ever needing to grind.
TSW has content after the Tokyo storyline only in the form of the Toyko dungeons (most of which is not included in SWL, but instead somewhat remade into that tank commander assault mission). TSW does not have the South Africa story line.
TSW is a lot easier to play solo than SWL since you don even need the auction house to do any solo content. You play the missions, use the gear they grant you: continue until end. The auction house is for late late game stuff like augments/signets/museum and never needed for solo content. You could argue that nightmare scenarios are hard to do without some of that though, but I remember doing them a few times until I got the hang out it without any gear grind. Took me a while to get platinum though.
And again: People are still playing TSW and I've seen a few people gifting signets etc. to others (I know I have), since most people don't bother with the auction house and have a surplus of everything, since they have been playing the game for so long.
They've also changed some parts of the story in SWL to cram the later released issues into the main story line (which makes some mission texts not make sense anymore), changed some parts of the environment in weird ways (like the bridge with 500 cars on it in New England), upscaled rare enemies which makes them look ridiculous, changed several parts of the UI to be annoyingly flashy and made to lead you to the store and added extra mindless kill missions. I'd argue that SWL is a worse experience if you just want to play an immersive game and have fun with the story solo.
It's made to make you want to spend more time on it and buy stuff and less so to enjoy the game. It's simply uses most parts of TSW, but spewed fishing stuff on top of it.
The 3rd post in this thread says one option and there are a few others, but yes: Funcom sure tried to make TSW vanish from the surface of the earth so people would play SWL. Transforming the Steam entry from TSW to SWL (which kept the reviews, though they instantly tanked after that) and updating everyones TSW launcher so it downloads SWL instead etc.
And even with all that TSW is still played.
Yes, that's correct. I started playing TSW at release.
And long before Tokyo was released, I did have to change my hybrid build into a specialist build to be able to pass the Gatekeeper so that I could do Nightmare content. So my experience is necessarily based on that, as opposed to playing single player.
Then the raiding guild/cabal I was in folded after Tokyo was released. I quit TSW soon after.
Those facts no doubt affect my opinion, because I was still in an MMO raiding guild mindset.
I am now playing SWL solo and enjoying it. I've already experienced all the content in the original TSW up to Tokyo, bought every single issue in TSW, and so can recognize where SWL skipped a lot of things but I've already done that in TSW.
For the record, I completely detest the combat and class changes in SWL. However, it has some new content, which TSW lacks. Returning to TSW now means only learning to adapt to AEGIS.
Why should I? Perhaps I will when I've exhausted SWL's content, but until then, there is no reason for me to bother with TSW now.
For people who like to solo, playing the original TSW might be interesting for them (do they have to buy Issues now, like we did?), but I've been there, done that.
That confused me at first, but I think I've figured it out now, so I deleted that post.
The Steam version is only SWL now. It's free to play, with extra benefits if you subscribe.
If you bought the original TSW and all its updates, you still have them, if you access your account directly from Funcom.
If you want to play the original TSW, you can't do that using Steam.
you said you stopped playing after Toyko launch but you also didnt know about the change in currencys. assuming you at least finished the story in tokyo then that you means that you quit at some point during Issue 11 release but before issue 12.
so ~mid 2015, roughly 2 years before SWL launched.
in these 2 years there have been:
2 massive Ability reworks, including the addition of the "vulnerability-system"
major Currency rework
the addition of 10.6 to 11.0 gear, which also made acquiring/upgrading gear easier
a lot of Signets were changed/buffed
2 major Fusang reworks (and PvP rewards in general)
the Museum was added
Flappy raid was [permanently] added and Eidolon was made into a Raid aswell (instead of being tied to Lairs)
Worldbosses were added (tied to Lairs; instead of Eidolon)
Tokyo Dungeons and NM difficulty Raids
Groupfinder was added
Daily Challenges were added
some missions were made easier (mostly NM missions were turned into normal missions)
if you wanna read through the patchnotes yourself: https://wiki.crygaia.org/view/Update_1.15.5
you can check the other patchnotes at the bottom of the page.
TSW changed so much since you, Liralen, last played that your personal experience from 7+ years ago does not matter anymore.
SWL has been just as dead as TSW about one year after it launched.
just look at the steamcharts: https://steamcharts.com/app/215280
March 2017: 262.4 avg Players [666 player peak] (SWL was announced in that month)
August 2018: 270.8 avg players [483 player peak] (1 year after SWL launched on steam)
Yes, apparently it has. But almost everything you've said relates to the group experience, which I've pretty much retired from. Museums don't interest me at all (they are implemented in SWL), and the only thing I could do in TSW solo that I haven't done is grinding for AEGIS upgrades.
I guess you all in favor of TSW are posting here on Steam is because the original TSW forums are dead.
However, the fact remains that it's difficult for players who don't already own TSW to be able to play it.
And there is still no reason for me personally to play TSW now.
This is the original TSW forum.
No it's not. I'm posting this on Steam and I did not have Steam even installed back when I first played TSW in 2012. This is the original TSW forum, now archived: https://forums-archive.thesecretworld.com/
Funcom's SWL forum is my go to forum, where I suspect us former TSW players tend to hang out. https://forums.funcom.com/c/secret-world-legends/20
I suspect your odds of being able to find former TSW players might be much better there, who are the only ones that can easily play TSW if we wanted.
Edited Note: After posting the above, I noticed that someone posted on the archived TSW forums on November 15, 2022.
Curious, I decided to log in with my TSW/SWL account and was given the option to post there. But since I'm just now realizing that I can still post on it, your odds are probably better for reaching former TSW players on the Funcom SWL forums instead of Steam. I only even knew about the Steam forums about a month or so ago when I decided to return to SWL and decided to make a new toon because it had been so long since I last played SWL and my TSW/SWL account is maxed on new characters. I have since returned to using my TSW/SWL account to play SWL on.
So I suspect your odds of reaching former TSW players might be better on the Funcom forums. If there is even a way for players to play TSW on Steam, I am not aware of it. If you know of a way, there might be some Steam players who might try it.
No doubt it was for Steam players. But as I said, if there is a way to play TSW using Steam now, I'm not aware of it.
Those of us who played TSW with a Funcom account still can.
I didn't know that you were required to have a Funcom account to play TSW on Steam. I didn't need it when I used Steam for the first time to play SWL, less than two months ago. Steam never asked me if I had a Funcom account, so I suspect that is not a requirement now.
I do mean you well. I wasn't happy about SWL, but I wasn't happy with being alone in Tokyo soon after it was first released in TSW either. My happiest moments with TSW were the public Flappy raids and I'm really enjoying SWL's Krampusnacht public raids, which are somewhat similar, but substantially easier.
So there's not a chance that I would go back to TSW at the moment. But I suspect your odds at recruiting former TSW players might be better on the Funcom forums.
Although arguably, there might be players here bored with SWL and might want to experience some of the TSW content that was removed from SWL.
Edited Note: But if they still have to pay for the Issues, like we had to do, they might balk at that, some of which are included for free in SWL. On the other hand, there are also a lot of TSW missions that don't exist in SWL.