That was a fantastic five hours...

[pjw]

...and then an hour of frustration, and I'm done.

If a dev is reading this, I just have to ask why you would make the battle with the evil girlfriend spike in difficulty to that extreme a degree?

I bought this game, fired it up to "take a quick look" and played for three hours straight and I was super impressed!

Super Metroid is one of my all time favorite old school games, and Guacamelee scratches those itches (backtracking, looking for secrets via new abilities, boss fights) perfectly, while adding in a healthy dose of platforming that's hard enough to be a challenge.

Add to all that a totally over-the-top tongue-in-cheek Mexican luchadore backdrop that's genuinely funny at times, and I was really happy with the game.

I put it down last night and then kept on playing today and was having a great time, and then I got to the fight with whatsherface--the stormy girlfriend of the main villain. I got her to what I assume is the final stage of the fight without too much trouble, and then after spending a solid hour trying to beat her double-form, I finally just gave up and uninstalled.

Yes, I know you have to use the special uppercut move and the plunge to knock the respective forms out of invulnerability. I know what to do--I just couldn't do it consistently enough after an hour of trying, and by that time I was having no fun whatsoever.

The game was challenging up to that point, but I was never stuck anywhere for more than a few minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel ripped off--I had a great five hours of fun, but what an incredible shame. I was looking forward to the rest of it.

Really poor difficulty progression.

[Urthman]

One thing that may help, if you haven't noticed it already, is that shielded enemies are immune to damage, but you can still knock them around with your special moves. If the red and green enemies are standing next to each other, you can do a Rooster Uppercut on both of them. It will only crack the red shield, but the green enemy will also be thrown, which keeps her from attacking you while you get a few hits on the other one.

[Ignacio]

It's a fight about reflexes. Keep trying.

[ProudTiger]

Publicado originalmente por Discussions_Acc:

This part isn't exactly that difficult. Just punch and evade. I don't see the problem.

I know what to do--I just couldn't do it consistently enough after an hour of trying

How is that the developers fault?
You're unable to properly use one of the most basic moves. I don't think that has anything to do with the difficulty.

OP is spot on with his comments.
Game has a terrific game balance then they drop you from a 1000 foot cliff with the bosses and then the game goes from hero to zero in seconds.

They got the game balance completely wrong with this.

The developers of LBP went back to the drawing board and released Tearaway a magnificent game

The thing LBP has going for it though is online made levels and a level creator so I will forgive that game.

Guacamelee is terrible though.
There is a latency in the controls as well which makes beatng Xtabay even harder on the Vita.


Steam version may be slightly easier but I'm not buying it.
I don't want that depression feeling after going through countless times trying to beat Xtabay and failing.
Feel lower that a dog's guts.

I had to type on here to get the depression out of the system.

Braid had the same effect.Made me feel really low.

[ProudTiger]

Publicado originalmente por pjw:

...and then an hour of frustration, and I'm done.

If a dev is reading this, I just have to ask why you would make the battle with the evil girlfriend spike in difficulty to that extreme a degree?

I bought this game, fired it up to "take a quick look" and played for three hours straight and I was super impressed!

Super Metroid is one of my all time favorite old school games, and Guacamelee scratches those itches (backtracking, looking for secrets via new abilities, boss fights) perfectly, while adding in a healthy dose of platforming that's hard enough to be a challenge.

Add to all that a totally over-the-top tongue-in-cheek Mexican luchadore backdrop that's genuinely funny at times, and I was really happy with the game.

I put it down last night and then kept on playing today and was having a great time, and then I got to the fight with whatsherface--the stormy girlfriend of the main villain. I got her to what I assume is the final stage of the fight without too much trouble, and then after spending a solid hour trying to beat her double-form, I finally just gave up and uninstalled.

Yes, I know you have to use the special uppercut move and the plunge to knock the respective forms out of invulnerability. I know what to do--I just couldn't do it consistently enough after an hour of trying, and by that time I was having no fun whatsoever.

The game was challenging up to that point, but I was never stuck anywhere for more than a few minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel ripped off--I had a great five hours of fun, but what an incredible shame. I was looking forward to the rest of it.

Really poor difficulty progression.

Echo my thoughts exactly.
Got stuck in a few places but was having an enjoyable experience then the boss levels spoilt the party.
Not many developers know the magical ingredient of GAME BALANCE.

This game actualy had the game balance then they spoiled the broth by adding the bosses in.The game didn't need the bosses to be an enjoyable experience.

Maybe put one in at the very end of the game and one not OTT like Xtabay.

Even games like Mass Effect have easier bosses.
Did it destroy the gaming experience and enjoyment?
NO!
I can see why it got 9/10 in reviews.
The reviewers played it before they got to the Xtabay boss.

[ProudTiger]

This game is an indie game.
ie "let's make it harder than the big spenders to make out we're cooler'

[Nico]

Publicado originalmente por proud tiger:

This game is an indie game.
ie "let's make it harder than the big spenders to make out we're cooler'

No. Just no.
Big spenders AAA games are just too easy to please the kiddies and the masses.
This game is just like how modern games should be.
It's not like if you only had 3 lives to finish the game like it used to be in the 80s-90s.

[ProudTiger]

I played games in the 70s mate.
Atari console and pong lol.
I'm no kid.

This game is perfect for kids.
I think my reflexes have past me.

[Tripas]

Publicado originalmente por Nico:

Publicado originalmente por proud tiger:

This game is an indie game.
ie "let's make it harder than the big spenders to make out we're cooler'

No. Just no.
Big spenders AAA games are just too easy to please the kiddies and the masses.
This game is just like how modern games should be.
It's not like if you only had 3 lives to finish the game like it used to be in the 80s-90s.

Publicado originalmente por proud tiger:

I played games in the 70s mate.
Atari console and pong lol.
I'm no kid.

This game is perfect for kids.
I think my reflexes have past me.

I believe there is a balance between these two viewpoints. Personally, I don't think the devs made the bosses hard because they wanted to be "cool" or anything. Sometimes devs just think they're doing the right thing but then they just screw everything up. Especially when dealing with something that they've been working on for months or even years, to the point that they know all the ins and outs and it's hard to see the game from the viewpoint of the player, i.e. someone who most likely is just learning the game as he/she goes along. And that might lead to some random difficulty spikes when all the devs wanted to do was make the fight challenging or exciting but screwed it up.

On the other hand, let's not kid ourselves, games in the 80s and 90s weren't hard because "that's how real games should be". They were hard because they were SHORT as hell and without some mechanic that kept you from the finishing line (such as limited lives/continues and lots and LOTS of trial and error) you could finish pretty much any game in 1-2 hours. Oh, and a lot of them followed the school "development for the Arcade machines". You know, those things where every continue meant another coin into the devs pockets? Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and assume that the reason why those games (and subsequently the console games they influenced) weren't hard just because the devellopers thought it would be a nice "challenge"

[Power of Seven]

I also had a lot of trouble with X'tabay, but I think that there's a few gimmicks that you can do. If you don't care about speed runs or special achievements, then you can run in and out of town and just beat on the skeletons for money. They will respawn each time you cross a major boundary, so you can grind forever if you wanted. If you buy the Pollo Luchadore outfit (and maybe several upgrades), then you can eventually beat the fight with patience since you regenerate health.

I'm now completely stuck because I can't do this to beat the jumping puzzle sections in the Tula Tree. As an older gamer, I can't react that quickly anymore so I'm at a serious disadvantage trying to do rapid button pressing. I don't know what to do.

[Tripas]

Publicado originalmente por Power of Seven:

I'm now completely stuck because I can't do this to beat the jumping puzzle sections in the Tula Tree. As an older gamer, I can't react that quickly anymore so I'm at a serious disadvantage trying to do rapid button pressing. I don't know what to do.

He he, it's amazing how many of us are looking at today's games and going "crap, I'm getting too old for this, I don't have the reflexes I used to have to keep up with these kids and their fairly straightforward platforming and button-presses ". Well, at least I know I'm not the only one.

Anyway, I've been through your situation. It's just a matter of persisting, staying focused and, in the lack of the reflexes that we used to have, just gradually commit the sequence and timing of buttons to memory until you get it down. You just have to keep trying, Luchador !

[Mr Smith]

Are you guys talking about normal mode or hard, because my 7 yr old son beat her on normal without much fuss. I can't see playing this game without an XBOX controller for all the button combos you eventually have to master, so maybe that's the problem?

Just wait till you get to El Infierno or Tule Tree Tops although that's optional. Made me want to throw the remote quite a few times, but I never felt "this is impossible" even on those hard challenges.

As far as the old gamer comment above, I think our experience with games back in the day are perfect for Guacamelee's challenges. I swear it hit me with nostalgia everytime I tried the blinking platform challenge.

[Hegemon]

-> pjw - so would you be happier if the game was extremely difficult all along and you could not defeat even the first boss? There would be no difficulty spike then.

[Rauke]

Publicado originalmente por pjw:

I'm playing with an XBox controller.

I just watched a vid of the fight, and I wasn't really missing anything--I just wasn't good enough at timing and reacting to the two bosses. I never even managed to get her down from 2v1 to 1v1.

All of you who are saying, "Well, I didn't have any trouble" or "I got past her on my second try", you're missing my point. You got past her because you're obviously better than I am. So what?

I wasn't even getting close, after trying it for an hour. That, in and of itself, is also not a problem. If a game is too hard for me, then there are two possible solutions, either (a) quit, or (b) get better n00b.

My problem is that I didn't have any real trouble with the entire game up until that point. <--That's the point.

When you're playing through a game, and you don't have any serious trouble for the first...1/4th? 1/3rd?, and then you hit a wall, that's not difficulty "ramping up", that's a huge spike. When difficulty increases, it should still feel reachable/doable, as opposed to "F you, you're done."

That's a design flaw, and it's going to stop anyone who's at a similar skill level from hanging in there, trying to get better, and enjoying the game. That's my complaint. Could I have kept beating my head against the wall and eventually got past it? Of course. But I shouldn't have to spend a significant chunk of my overall playtime grinding one boss, because that isn't fun, and it kind of defeats the purpose.

The point is that there are people(like me), which did not notice a "spike in difficulty" at this boss.

I suppose you haven't really bothered to use anything except basic jumping and punching in the five hours before that boss.

[pjw]

Publicado originalmente por Hegemon:

-> pjw - so would you be happier if the game was extremely difficult all along and you could not defeat even the first boss? There would be no difficulty spike then.

Excellent post and perfect solution! Good job, that solves the whole problem.

Publicado originalmente por Alraune:

The point is that there are people(like me), which did not notice a "spike in difficulty" at this boss.

That means that you're better at this game than I am, as I said previously.

Publicado originalmente por Alraune:

I suppose you haven't really bothered to use anything except basic jumping and punching in the five hours before that boss.

I suppose you are mistaken.

[Derbefrier]

wasnt that bad. beat her on my 2nd or 3rd try same for Jaguar Javier. games is tough but not so bad i'd call it bad design. some people just arent as good as they think they are.