Is Tower Wars Broken or Unfair?

[An Hero]

So I returned to Tower Wars today and was excited to see the bots you could play against. Perfect since I needed to restore my skills anyways. Upon fighting the level 1 bot I couldn't help but laugh as he never sent a single unit. But hey, it was only level 1. I then proceeded to the level 2 bot and have lost 8 times in a row. Don't think I'm terrible, because I am cruising through this game and for whatever reason he's always got me thinking, "How the heck does he have X amount of tower and X amount of gold miners and still send X amount of units?!" I can't help but think the game is really stacked, and I'm honestly scared hopeless of what level 10 brings if level 2 seems to honestly be "God Mode" to me.

Any clarification? The people online seem to be easier than this level 2 bot....I win more than I lose online.

[Daniel Mtanous - USA - INACTIVE]

I haven't been counting towers or anything but I have made it pretty far with level 2. I haven't passed it though and I have lost plenty of times. One thing I do notice is that when you send a stacked offence he magically counters with towers... Who knows if he is saving money or if it's given to him by the PC gods.

[An Hero]

I finally beat bot level 2. It was hard, but I still think the game is somewhat broken.

Put it this way, bot level 1 was like Kindergarten.
Bot level 2 was college classes. Don't even want to play level 3 now.

[ManuX]

HAHAHA, just wait 'til you get to lvl 9, I've managed to send moopsies earlier, I've managed to get more miners at the begining and I've managed to stop the AI's waves, but still after a couple waves the AI magically has lvl 2 mines with at last 1 or 2 miners while I've just got my first lvl 2 mine, I'm almost certain that the AI gets more money and BP than me.

If the lvl 9 bot beats the crap out of me I can't begin to imagine how hard will lvl 10 be if I even mangage to beat the lvl 9.

Anyway, good luck with lvl 3 @An Hero

[Ar-Pharazon]

Автор сообщения: Daniel M. - Texas, USA

Who knows if he is saving money or if it's given to him by the PC gods.

Bots 9 and 10 cheat, but the rest are playing by the same rules you are... except for bots 1, 2, and 3, who are reverse cheating in your favor. The opposite of Lucrum, bot 10, they each have a gold disadvantage to slow them down. For the same level of mine upgrades and miners, they get less gold than you do.

If you aren't already, try to keep an eye on their side of the board... see what they're up to. Do they stop your units faster than you are stopping theirs? (That's often the root problem when you're having trouble in Tower Wars -- that, or getting behind in mines.) Be sure that you are steadily progressing in the pressure you put on your enemy. If you give him a break, he has more opportunity to send against you and become stronger as a result. Given enough time (and more to the point, resources), even the weakest bot will gather its strength enough to become nearly unstoppable. It's all about denying that opportunity to the enemy.

An Hero, I assume you're exaggerating when you say bot #1 never sent a single unit?

[ManuX]

Автор сообщения: SVS Ar-Pharazon

Автор сообщения: Daniel M. - Texas, USA

Who knows if he is saving money or if it's given to him by the PC gods.

Bots 9 and 10 cheat

I KNEW IT!!! Man it's gonna be hard, but well if it wasn't this wouldn't be fun XD...

[An Hero]

Автор сообщения: SVS Ar-Pharazon

Автор сообщения: Daniel M. - Texas, USA

Who knows if he is saving money or if it's given to him by the PC gods.

Bots 9 and 10 cheat, but the rest are playing by the same rules you are... except for bots 1, 2, and 3, who are reverse cheating in your favor. The opposite of Lucrum, bot 10, they each have a gold disadvantage to slow them down. For the same level of mine upgrades and miners, they get less gold than you do.

If you aren't already, try to keep an eye on their side of the board... see what they're up to. Do they stop your units faster than you are stopping theirs? (That's often the root problem when you're having trouble in Tower Wars -- that, or getting behind in mines.) Be sure that you are steadily progressing in the pressure you put on your enemy. If you give him a break, he has more opportunity to send against you and become stronger as a result. Given enough time (and more to the point, resources), even the weakest bot will gather its strength enough to become nearly unstoppable. It's all about denying that opportunity to the enemy.

An Hero, I assume you're exaggerating when you say bot #1 never sent a single unit?

I wish I was. Not a single unit was sent before I won. I thought it was just because it was level 1 and it was to give the player an understanding of the game, but I didn't kill or see a single enemy unit from bot level 1.

[Gallaorn]

Guys go read the guide they will help you tremedously. There are also a few videos kicking around in the threads of oblivion beating lvl10. Once you get the basic I garantee you you will breeze through lvl1-8 bots.

[Ar-Pharazon]

Автор сообщения: An Hero

I wish I was. Not a single unit was sent before I won. I thought it was just because it was level 1 and it was to give the player an understanding of the game, but I didn't kill or see a single enemy unit from bot level 1.

No, that is definitely not normal. Which map were you playIng on? Has anyone else seen this behavior?

Until more information comes to light, I would have to guess you have some corrupted (or missing) game data. Could you please right-click on Tower Wars, select Properties, Local Files tab, and Verify Integrity of Game Cache?

[Sarkilas]

I had no problems with any of the bots. They all sent units fine and built okay mazes. Lucrum actually humiliates me most of the time. I've beaten him once, and even then my castle was at like 20% HP. I've tried several mod maps as well, they seem to be working fine for me in all cases.

The only thing I can say that might cater to not sending units, is that if you send units that definitely will pass the bot's maze, the bot will build like mad and spend most of its gold, so you can send again before it manages to get enough gold to send against you. Might part of the explanation to why it doesn't send. Just my two cents.

[Daniel Mtanous - USA - INACTIVE]

I do good until the walking robots appear and the shield regenerators. I just can't stop them even with a tesla towers.

[Ar-Pharazon]

Автор сообщения: Sarkilas

The only thing I can say that might cater to not sending units, is that if you send units that definitely will pass the bot's maze, the bot will build like mad and spend most of its gold, so you can send again before it manages to get enough gold to send against you. Might part of the explanation to why it doesn't send.

That is intentional behavior for the lower ranked bots... to a point. We want you to be able to dominate them, if you try -- like an inexperienced human player on a slippery slope of over-defending, while his opponent gets stronger and stronger. But eventually even the weaker bots should overcome the urge to defend, and push some units out. Also, I'd expect any bot to send at least the initial wave of Moopsies.

Daniel, try spacing your lightning towers out through your maze. Also, Stanleys are well rounded units with a mix of shield, armor, and health. You will probably need a mix of the three basic tower types (lightning, cannon, arrow) to take them down.

[An Hero]

I went ahead and verified my game. I then went and saw that the "defeated" sign was not next to level 1 bot. It was present on the level 2 one, which made me curious. I decided to beat the level 1 bot again and he is definitely sending units.

Call me crazy, but this level 1 bot, let alone the level 2 bot, is way better than any person I've played against in ranked online.

It really makes me woneder.

[Ar-Pharazon]

ok. So, it's a relief that he sends units. The lack of a Defeated sign indicates that more weird stuff was going on in that first game you played. Either the game could not talk to Steam (where the defeated stats are stored), or it did not know what bot it was supposed to be using. Disturbing, but if it goes away and never comes back, then... oh well.

The level 1 bot should be better than someone who comes fresh from Defense Grid and doesn't do any research. That was intentional. It correctly uses the mechanics of this game. If someone doesn't understand the game mechanics, then they should lose to the level 1 bot. We did not see the point in a throwaway bot that one can beat without trying.

I understand the point that some players may want to get their feet wet in a safe environment and just play around... but there's already a Tutorial for that. There is such a tremendous spread in skill level across the multiplayer community that we felt that defeating each bot should represent a concrete advancement in skill. (Besides pure entertainment, we wanted the bots to help players train up to play multiplayer games against the community's old guard.)

[ManuX]

Автор сообщения: SVS Ar-Pharazon

I understand the point that some players may want to get their feet wet in a safe environment and just play around... but there's already a Tutorial for that. There is such a tremendous spread in skill level across the multiplayer community that we felt that defeating each bot should represent a concrete advancement in skill. (Besides pure entertainment, we wanted the bots to help players train up to play multiplayer games against the community's old guard.)

And it is good training, after defeating lvl 8 bot I've won the past 7 online games :) good job with the single player mode guys, and thank you, it is really fun...

[Ar-Pharazon]

:D That's excellent. The experts can tell you that the bots don't play perfectly (and they're right), but you are an example that they are achieving their design goal. Glad you're having fun!