Magic: The Gathering Arena

Magic: The Gathering Arena

Arma 2024 年 11 月 19 日 上午 11:00
250 card decks
I know the subject has no doubt been talked about before but I'll be honest I'm too lazy to scroll back through to find a post.

Mathematically these decks just shouldn't work they should basically brick every single game just due to the amount of lands in the deck along with everything else.

Yet.. they never do they always seem to have exactly what they need when they need it be removal, land or just being able to play on curve.

Just wondering how it works is it some kind of exploit?
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正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 88 条留言
anaris 2024 年 12 月 23 日 下午 7:18 
引用自 kofool777
These decks do not play the same in real life. They get card or land flooded a lot. If you play a decent amount of games against them in real life you notice that. It is statistically impossible for them to be as good as they are in arena. That can only mean two things, the opening hand is rigged and the shuffler is rigged. To favor players who spent money, decks over 60 cards and decks with a lot of rares/mythic/over powered commons/uncommons.
they aren't good in arena
anaris 2024 年 12 月 23 日 下午 7:19 
i've played about as many games against 250 card decks as the rest of you and i've only ever lost one. i remember bc who tf loses to a 250 card deck lol
kingjames488 1 月 15 日 上午 1:54 
引用自 anaris
引用自 kingjames488
I mean... if you just have a larger deck than your opponent and it's all removal you're probably statistically likely to win a lot... if simply by running out your opponents deck.

removal is just too strong...

I got super annoyed at it the other day and just made a deck where the point is to stall and wipe their board repeatedly until I draw raise the dark realm and revive everything for myself... it's surprisingly good XD
Virtue of Persistence is a good backup to Raise
true, didn't have it when I posted that tho.

and realms just has such a GG factor, half the time people just rage when you summon everything in their graveyard XD
最后由 kingjames488 编辑于; 1 月 15 日 上午 1:55
If they go afk/alt-f4 and their timer expire, sure that's rage quitting. If they just insta scoop in response to rise of the dark realms exploring, that's not rage quitting, that's just realising the game is effectively over, conceding and not wasting either of your time and moving onto the next game.
Nubbles 1 月 15 日 上午 6:26 
If you play 100 lands in a 250 card deck, there's 40% lands in there, which results in the same chance of drawing lands when playing 24 lands in a 60 card deck.

The only reason these decks dont work mathematically, is because you're bad it math.

I used to play 300 card 5color highlander irl, before commander was a format. Bricked the same amount of times as other decks. I used to put that deck in the middle of the table and played with 3 friends from that same deck. Fun times.
最后由 Nubbles 编辑于; 1 月 15 日 上午 6:27
Nubbles 1 月 15 日 上午 6:34 
引用自 Tom the Mime Artist
If they go afk/alt-f4 and their timer expire, sure that's rage quitting. If they just insta scoop in response to rise of the dark realms exploring, that's not rage quitting, that's just realising the game is effectively over, conceding and not wasting either of your time and moving onto the next game.

Not anymore. In the app on my phone, I can no longer hit the options button in game. If I want to concede against control, the fastest way out of the game is now to actually let the timer run out. Which I also dont want to wait for, so I'll just close the app and concede that way and play a game of chess in between instead. I'd prefer to concede through options and start a new game immidiately, but that's just not possible atm.

There's more people running out their timers compared to a few months ago, so I guess there's more people with the same problem on phone. It's not ragequitting when you don't have the option to concede normally.
Arma 1 月 15 日 上午 6:35 
引用自 Nox
If you play 100 lands in a 250 card deck, there's 40% lands in there, which results in the same chance of drawing lands when playing 24 lands in a 60 card deck.

The only reason these decks dont work mathematically, is because you're bad it math.

I used to play 300 card 5color highlander irl, before commander was a format. Bricked the same amount of times as other decks. I used to put that deck in the middle of the table and played with 3 friends from that same deck. Fun times.

You're ignoring a simple fact and it's so basic it makes me laugh since you're in the field of insulting people I'll do the same to you Mr can't see a basic prolem. Shuffling IRL compared to MTG Arena is massively different to the extent that you can't even consider the two things related.
Nubbles 1 月 15 日 上午 7:27 
引用自 Arma
引用自 Nox
If you play 100 lands in a 250 card deck, there's 40% lands in there, which results in the same chance of drawing lands when playing 24 lands in a 60 card deck.

The only reason these decks dont work mathematically, is because you're bad it math.

I used to play 300 card 5color highlander irl, before commander was a format. Bricked the same amount of times as other decks. I used to put that deck in the middle of the table and played with 3 friends from that same deck. Fun times.

You're ignoring a simple fact and it's so basic it makes me laugh since you're in the field of insulting people I'll do the same to you Mr can't see a basic prolem. Shuffling IRL compared to MTG Arena is massively different to the extent that you can't even consider the two things related.
Awesome, you've actually seen the code? Please enlighten us how arena shuffles.
最后由 Nubbles 编辑于; 1 月 15 日 上午 7:27
anaris 1 月 15 日 上午 7:53 
引用自 Nox
If you play 100 lands in a 250 card deck, there's 40% lands in there, which results in the same chance of drawing lands when playing 24 lands in a 60 card deck.

The only reason these decks dont work mathematically, is because you're bad it math.

I used to play 300 card 5color highlander irl, before commander was a format. Bricked the same amount of times as other decks. I used to put that deck in the middle of the table and played with 3 friends from that same deck. Fun times.
please do the probability tree

the deck you describe can have 150 card streaks without lands. That results in a different possibility space to a 60 card deck.
anaris 1 月 15 日 上午 7:54 
引用自 Nox
Awesome, you've actually seen the code? Please enlighten us how arena shuffles.
fisher yates algorithm based on mersenne twister seeded with 256 cryptographically-secure random bits
引用自 Namdoolb
引用自 Arma
I know the subject has no doubt been talked about before but I'll be honest I'm too lazy to scroll back through to find a post.

Mathematically these decks just shouldn't work they should basically brick every single game just due to the amount of lands in the deck along with everything else.

Yet.. they never do they always seem to have exactly what they need when they need it be removal, land or just being able to play on curve.

Just wondering how it works is it some kind of exploit?

statistically speaking as long as the deck builder has the correct land ratio (about 40%) they should "brick" no more or less often than any other deck.

Also (as long as the deck builder has done the mana curve properly) they should curve out just as well as a 60 card deck.

Same goes for most things.

The point where 250 card decks don't do quite as well is that their synergy is generally not as strong as 60 card decks: a 60 card deck is somewhere between 9-18 discrete non-land cards (probably about 10-11) which are chosen to work well together & play off each other.
For a 250 card deck that's probably about 40 (38-75) different cards that all have to play well together.
It'll still function as well as a 60 card deck in terms of letting you play the game, but you're not necessarily going to find you best interactions all the time.
i play with about 30 mana cards to 180 non mana. i rarely get a bad draw.
anaris 1 月 15 日 上午 9:43 
lol is ur mana curve a straight line
I've really only seen them brick to five color. Dual color has issues at the same rate as other decks. I also feel they don't fail as much as they should
引用自 Arma
Will say that twice today I've gone vs 250 card decks and both times without needing to mulligan they have had leyline of the guildpact in their starting hand what is just fkin crazy to me.

Like even with 4 of them in the deck the chances for them to have it in the starting hand and on top of that having a perfectly playable hand with perfect curve is just... well I have to think the % chance of it happening it so low I have a higher chance of winning the lottery frankly :P

And yes I lost both the games vs those decks because they had exactly what they needed to win. The first having low cost removal on turn 1 and 2 and 3 before pumping out nothing but 4+ cost creatures every turn and the second player having blessing of the world tree and Felidar Retreat in their starting hand what then meant every creature they played got buffed and they also had a land in their hand every turn while of course my 60 card deck land flooded me

Yeah, this is pretty interesting.

I started counting games vs players that 100+ cards in their decks because they always seemed to be getting the answers to the cards I was playing. The odds seem a little off when they get many of the same cards by turn 4 or 5.

Just today I played against 8 150+ Decks. One game against a 210 card deck, (Black with a mix of other colors). They had all 4 Deep-Cavern Bats on the board by turn 4. What the hell? I can see that in a 60 card deck but having over 200, and having 4 of the same card at the start of the game? Even if they drew a couple of them over the first 3 turns is just wrong. Then having the land and other cards that got played that kept me from playing anything?

90% of the games against 100+ decks I've played have been black with a mix of colors and 70% of them had had 2 or 3 Deep-Cavern Bats on the board by turn 4. Then other removal and counters to start things off.

I've just started conceding against decks with 100+ cards. Something just seems fishy about the odds of getting 2 or 3 of the same card by turn 5 or 6. The odds or so slim of that happening is nuts.

Maybe they are just lucky and the RNG just does it that way instead of shuffling cards.

Something else I've noticed is that I don't think the game always shuffles the deck when you use fetch lands. I did some scrying and knew what the top two cards were. Still had 46 cards in the deck at this time. Cracked a fetch land and the two cards on top stayed the same and in the same order. Both of them I only had 2 of each in the deck and one of them was already in my hand. I mean it could happen but that is odd in my mind.
anaris 2 月 10 日 上午 8:06 
引用自 Arma
I know the subject has no doubt been talked about before but I'll be honest I'm too lazy to scroll back through to find a post.

Mathematically these decks just shouldn't work they should basically brick every single game just due to the amount of lands in the deck along with everything else.

Yet.. they never do they always seem to have exactly what they need when they need it be removal, land or just being able to play on curve.

Just wondering how it works is it some kind of exploit?

it doesn't work??? I can't remember the last time I lost to a 250 card deck. Last night I did lose to a 100 card deck, but it was because I miscounted the mana I had open. It's like... not a thing
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发帖日期: 2024 年 11 月 19 日 上午 11:00
回复数: 88