Sure wish we could play Magic

[=CBK= Zhuge]

This game has always been just copy and paste, but now its literally fighting the same decks over and over and over.

We need a "creative mode" where you actually make your own deck and play it against others who make theirs, and yes there will be people who complain about this but its better than just playing against the same meta decks over and over.

Not like they read the forums anyhow, they midaswell just take away the ability to create decks and just give us pre-set decks at this point, but then they won't get money from people who fall for the system and buy, buy, buy to create the top meta decks to compete against the same crap each match day in day out. Frustrating and boring. I hate looking at the tournaments aswell, when you see the deck lists its just plain sad.

[=CBK= Zhuge]

Publicado originalmente por anaris:

Yes, software is coded - that's pretty obvious. What the code looks like is not obvious because it's proprietary which means you can't simply open the files and see the code.

we actually do know enough about the shuffler code to rule out some of the claims we see on here - it's the MT19337 mersenne twister seeded with 256 cryptographically-secure random bits, and the fisher-yates algorithm

Where is the MTGA forums? Why were the deleted again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNko4AE_C4 - This guy also has quite a few hints towards some issues. He plays alot even with the issues he points out with the flawed system.

He even talks about your weighted system, uh oh they have other systems in the game? besides the "shuffler?" Correct they have many other systems in the game, this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate.. Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+? Why isn't there such dominating people in this game that even with the best meta decks and god tier luck theres no real census of people winning nearly every single game? Oh wait they get matched against the same decks! Not only that they then can get paired against better "weighted" decks right? You brought the system up so you acknowledge they already have multiple systems, so its so very hard for you to believe they have other ones that cause further issues too? Denial.

I also remember the MTGA community forums, had hundreds if not thousands of threads showing evidence, so for you guys to sit there and cry about show the evidence, you're correct I am not someone thats got it, I played many years ago when the forums were still around and people were breaking it all down like how you guys sit on these forums debating, belittling and near attacking people that post things you don't agree with.

Now keep in mind one of you did say they had their own evidence, remember earlier? Its why I have no reason to respond to that guy, as he is just here to cause drama and feed off what you guys that actually add things to the conversation. As he has shown nothing and only sits there trying to garner responses and suckle upon you and others "owns" on the forums is very sad. But again, to each their own.

[The_Dybbuk_King]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

Publicado originalmente por anaris:

we actually do know enough about the shuffler code to rule out some of the claims we see on here - it's the MT19337 mersenne twister seeded with 256 cryptographically-secure random bits, and the fisher-yates algorithm

Where is the MTGA forums? Why were the deleted again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNko4AE_C4 - This guy also has quite a few hints towards some issues. He plays alot even with the issues he points out with the flawed system.

He even talks about your weighted system, uh oh they have other systems in the game? besides the "shuffler?" Correct they have many other systems in the game, this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate.. Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+? Why isn't there such dominating people in this game that even with the best meta decks and god tier luck theres no real census of people winning nearly every single game? Oh wait they get matched against the same decks! Not only that they then can get paired against better "weighted" decks right? You brought the system up so you acknowledge they already have multiple systems, so its so very hard for you to believe they have other ones that cause further issues too? Denial.

I also remember the MTGA community forums, had hundreds if not thousands of threads showing evidence, so for you guys to sit there and cry about show the evidence, you're correct I am not someone thats got it, I played many years ago when the forums were still around and people were breaking it all down like how you guys sit on these forums debating, belittling and near attacking people that post things you don't agree with.

Now keep in mind one of you did say they had their own evidence, remember earlier? Its why I have no reason to respond to that guy, as he is just here to cause drama and feed off what you guys that actually add things to the conversation. As he has shown nothing and only sits there trying to garner responses and suckle upon you and others "owns" on the forums is very sad. But again, to each their own.

I know this is strange for a MAGA, but false information, when proven false, is then disregarded by normal people because it is false.

Only true fools would bring up a nobody hatetuber with no credibility and cite it as gospel.

[anaris]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate..

because that's how fair matchmaking works.

Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+?

because the winrate for pro tour winners who take their decks to FNM never exceeds 70%.

[anaris]

also the evidence is that famous sample of 1 million games lol he assumed you knew ♥♥♥♥

[=CBK= Zhuge]

Publicado originalmente por anaris:

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate..

because that's how fair matchmaking works.

Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+?

because the winrate for pro tour players who take their decks to FNM never exceeds 70%.

Fair matchmaking, thanks for admitting.

[The_Dybbuk_King]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

Publicado originalmente por anaris:

because that's how fair matchmaking works.




because the winrate for pro tour players who take their decks to FNM never exceeds 70%.

Fair matchmaking, thanks for admitting. :wowspurr:

skill based matchmaking is a standard in every single competitive game. This is not the gotcha you think it is.

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

this game is, however, a gatcha game.

[Malvastor]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

Publicado originalmente por anaris:

we actually do know enough about the shuffler code to rule out some of the claims we see on here - it's the MT19337 mersenne twister seeded with 256 cryptographically-secure random bits, and the fisher-yates algorithm

Correct they have many other systems in the game, this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate.. Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+? Why isn't there such dominating people in this game that even with the best meta decks and god tier luck theres no real census of people winning nearly every single game?

Because in a game this complex no one deck is better than 90% of everything else. No matter what you're running someone out there has an answer for it, and if they don't they'll invent one within a day of playing you.

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

Oh wait they get matched against the same decks! Not only that they then can get paired against better "weighted" decks right?

This is exactly what you'd expect from random matchups pulled from a pool where a whole lot of people run meta decks. Like, when you play Spades do you flip out when other players have a spade?

[Imnuktam]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

This game has always been just copy and paste, but now its literally fighting the same decks over and over and over.

We need a "creative mode" where you actually make your own deck and play it against others who make theirs, and yes there will be people who complain about this but its better than just playing against the same meta decks over and over.

Not like they read the forums anyhow, they midaswell just take away the ability to create decks and just give us pre-set decks at this point, but then they won't get money from people who fall for the system and buy, buy, buy to create the top meta decks to compete against the same crap each match day in day out. Frustrating and boring. I hate looking at the tournaments aswell, when you see the deck lists its just plain sad.

Yeah the rise of the internet was the downfall of playing unique feeling magic decks. They need to make that bot more functional so I can keep enjoying playing MTG Arena because its like you said, it is the same decks over and over and unless opponent gets the best deal they can, they quit by turn 4. Half my games end in them quitting before I have even attacked them 2x.

I remember around 15 years ago when Magic online first came out I would make my table named something like "English, decks you actually own and created" and 4 guys would sit down and shuffle their 'biblioteca' before playing the same dragon storm grand prix winning deck over and over and over.

[=CBK= Zhuge]

Publicado originalmente por Imnuktam:

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

This game has always been just copy and paste, but now its literally fighting the same decks over and over and over.

We need a "creative mode" where you actually make your own deck and play it against others who make theirs, and yes there will be people who complain about this but its better than just playing against the same meta decks over and over.

Not like they read the forums anyhow, they midaswell just take away the ability to create decks and just give us pre-set decks at this point, but then they won't get money from people who fall for the system and buy, buy, buy to create the top meta decks to compete against the same crap each match day in day out. Frustrating and boring. I hate looking at the tournaments aswell, when you see the deck lists its just plain sad.

Yeah the rise of the internet was the downfall of playing unique feeling magic decks. They need to make that bot more functional so I can keep enjoying playing MTG Arena because its like you said, it is the same decks over and over and unless opponent gets the best deal they can, they quit by turn 4. Half my games end in them quitting before I have even attacked them 2x.

I remember around 15 years ago when Magic online first came out I would make my table named something like "English, decks you actually own and created" and 4 guys would sit down and shuffle their 'biblioteca' before playing the same dragon storm grand prix winning deck over and over and over.

Yeah man Magic Online was awesome when it first came out, could chat with people, create random decks and play.

Now its Meta, Oops, Thanks, Oops, Your Turn, Good Game have fun in the next slop.

[Minnzy]

I have a deck I call "FWSP" which means "Fun with spell prevention". It's honestly my favourite deck as it's designed to take advantage of the overwhelming amount of netdeckers.

It's designed to slow them down a little at the start and then just outright deny their ability to even cast their big spells whilst it slowly whittles down their life. No big insta win, just slow life loss each turn. The amount of times they instantly concede when I name a card they haven't even played yet just because it's hilariously obvious it's coming basically got me to mythic again super quickly. Oh you've got white and aren't playing spells early game? Well too bad that "Farewell" you think you can use to exile all my enchantments can't be cast! Oh what's that? A colourless deck? It'll be a shame if that Ugin, the spirit dragon is just going to rot in your hand :D

Though I won't lie, been surprised once or twice with a Planar cleansing I should have seen or Ugin when they seem to have a coloured deck

[Winter Wolf]

To the best of my recollection, MTGO came out in 2000. It was out of alpha in 2001 and in closed Beta until 2002. It gold opened in 2003. It was clunky and funny and interesting and also really not how it should have been done. But Leaping Lizards was a small operation that took a huge risk and WoTC let them run with it.

There is absolutely NO comparison to MTGO v1 and MTGA. MTGO v4 (current) is more complete version of the game but it is also heavily bugged and was stripped down before WOTC abandoned it to a 3rd party because they no longer wanted to put money into it.

It amazes me Daybreak has kept it up and running since they took over and I have hopes that someday they will upgrade from its last client of 11ish years ago. I'd love to have a reason to use my 40k+ cards on there again.

MTGA scratches the magic itch for me without me having to do more than log in to keep up with dailies and the mastery track. This lets me keep abreast of new sets and what cards are interesting without sinking a single dime into the game.

If MTGO were comparable to MTGA, I'd be happy to use both.

There are certainly issues with MTGA that are more than a little irksome, but they are surmountable. The issues on MTGO are personnel related (my friends mostly all ditched it enmass because it was intolerable for awhile when the ptb took away the popular casual formats and capabilities.)

But what I really want more than anything in a magic digital product is an up to date legit version of Shandalar and hopefully even a 2.0 in the same style of design that Sid Meier brought to the original.

[Guzu]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNko4AE_C4 - This guy also has quite a few hints towards some issues. He plays alot even with the issues he points out with the flawed system.

He says pretty much what I said:
1. It has been discovered for Brawl
2. It is not applied for ranked standard because in ranked you're simply matched with similar ranks
3. There is no proof it is applied to unranked standard (he simply suspects it is)

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

He even talks about your weighted system, uh oh they have other systems in the game? besides the "shuffler?" Correct they have many other systems in the game, this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate.. Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+? Why isn't there such dominating people in this game that even with the best meta decks and god tier luck theres no real census of people winning nearly every single game? Oh wait they get matched against the same decks! Not only that they then can get paired against better "weighted" decks right? You brought the system up so you acknowledge they already have multiple systems, so its so very hard for you to believe they have other ones that cause further issues too? Denial.

Why aren't there poker players with >90% winrates? If the system isn't rigged, the good players should be able to achieve it, right? If your intuition tells you "no, because there is some randomness involved" then you are right. Same goes for MTG. You will never see a deck perform at ridiculous values like that. Heck, take a game that is predominantly skill based like WC3 and look at the worlds best players and their winrates. It's close to 70% because at some point you will be matched against equally or close to equally good players.

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

I also remember the MTGA community forums, had hundreds if not thousands of threads showing evidence, so for you guys to sit there and cry about show the evidence, you're correct I am not someone thats got it, I played many years ago when the forums were still around and people were breaking it all down like how you guys sit on these forums debating, belittling and near attacking people that post things you don't agree with.

I'm going to assume most of them were on the same level as the comments below the posted video which is simply ranting.


Instead of arguing in circles you can simply go and test it. Build a complete garbage deck and see how often you still face monored aggro. From my experience it's 20-30% no matter if your deck is full of rare/mythics or only commons/uncommons. Heck, build a deck with only lands and see if you will face the meta decks. If MTGA had a weighted card system for standard unranked it must be so minor that it makes no difference.

[=CBK= Zhuge]

Publicado originalmente por Guzu:

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNko4AE_C4 - This guy also has quite a few hints towards some issues. He plays alot even with the issues he points out with the flawed system.

He says pretty much what I said:
1. It has been discovered for Brawl
2. It is not applied for ranked standard because in ranked you're simply matched with similar ranks
3. There is no proof it is applied to unranked standard (he simply suspects it is)

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

He even talks about your weighted system, uh oh they have other systems in the game? besides the "shuffler?" Correct they have many other systems in the game, this is why people that use Untapper literally show they always stay around 50% win rate.. Why is there not a single person with thousands of games played at 90%+? Why isn't there such dominating people in this game that even with the best meta decks and god tier luck theres no real census of people winning nearly every single game? Oh wait they get matched against the same decks! Not only that they then can get paired against better "weighted" decks right? You brought the system up so you acknowledge they already have multiple systems, so its so very hard for you to believe they have other ones that cause further issues too? Denial.

Why aren't there poker players with >90% winrates? If the system isn't rigged, the good players should be able to achieve it, right? If your intuition tells you "no, because there is some randomness involved" then you are right. Same goes for MTG. You will never see a deck perform at ridiculous values like that. Heck, take a game that is predominantly skill based like WC3 and look at the worlds best players and their winrates. It's close to 70% because at some point you will be matched against equally or close to equally good players.

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

I also remember the MTGA community forums, had hundreds if not thousands of threads showing evidence, so for you guys to sit there and cry about show the evidence, you're correct I am not someone thats got it, I played many years ago when the forums were still around and people were breaking it all down like how you guys sit on these forums debating, belittling and near attacking people that post things you don't agree with.

I'm going to assume most of them were on the same level as the comments below the posted video which is simply ranting.


Instead of arguing in circles you can simply go and test it. Build a complete garbage deck and see how often you still face monored aggro. From my experience it's 20-30% no matter if your deck is full of rare/mythics or only commons/uncommons. Heck, build a deck with only lands and see if you will face the meta decks. If MTGA had a weighted card system for standard unranked it must be so minor that it makes no difference.

Theres literally no more need for you to post but you can if you desire, you can keep living in lala-land or denial land, but when a Video game is "programed" for the player to take losses no matter what, its at that point not even a game about "skill" or even "luck" as they take the entire aspect of both of them out and replace it with a system that forces you to take losses.

Keep trying again if you desire I can't stop you, but you keep going on with this brawl nonsense when in Standard Ranked its still applied, the Programs force the player to take direct losses to keep them at a percent level.

Goodluck however living in denial land is not a good place to be.

[nul]

Publicado originalmente por =CBK= Zhuge:

Publicado originalmente por The_Dybbuk_King:

lmfao


That is not how the game works.

So, you were playing magic. Nice.

Okay so you think I am wrong on the 50%, please show your evidence upon your own theory.

The average win rate on Magic: The Gathering Arena is generally considered to be around 50%, with some players and decks fluctuating above or below that average.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:

50% Target:
Arena's matchmaking system is designed to keep most players' win rates around 50%, aiming to prevent players from feeling discouraged or overwhelmed.

Skill-Based Matchmaking:
While the system strives for 50%, it's also based on skill, meaning players with better decks and strategies may have higher win rates, while those with weaker decks or strategies may see lower win rates.
Deck Performance:
A deck's win rate can vary significantly depending on its strength, the current meta, and the player's skill in piloting it.
Popular Decks:
Some decks consistently perform well in the current meta, leading to higher win rates, while others struggle to compete.
Example Decks:
Some decks in the March 2025 metagame, according to AetherHub, include Azorius (51-53% win rate), Dimir Lurrus (65% win rate), and Mono White (53% win rate).
Card Data:
17Lands.com provides card data, including win rates for various cards, which can help players understand the performance of different cards and strategies.
Active Players:
Magic: The Gathering Arena has a large and active player base, with millions of players playing daily and monthly.

I hope you know that in a game with exactly two players, one winner and one loser. One player winning out of two is 50%. So if you add up all the wins and losses of every single player, it will be 50%. For every match someone won, their opponent lost.
That doesn't mean it tries to keep you specifically at 50%. Otherwise no one would be in Mythic in ranked. And especially not unranked event ("tournament") formats, which don't use any weighting at all for matchmaking.

But also why did you write it like you asked ChatGPT or something