A Veteran Paper Player's Thoughts On This Game

[swagen2167]

First some background so I'm not just some noob new to Magic.

I started playing around Revised. I think it was late 1994. I graduated from Standard to Legacy when Standard started to bore me. Was able to hold my own against most opponents and won quite a few tournaments. Okay, I know how to play Magic.

So far, I'm finding playing this game itself easy. I win most of my matches. Of course I run into a lot of opponents who seem to scoop, sometimes before they even play a land. I'm not sure I understand that, but whatever.

For the most part, I like this game. Of course I love playing Magic itself so I am quite biased.

Having said that, there are things about this game that bug me a little. Not enough to stop playing but enough that I felt the need to vent just a little.

1. It's obvious that opening hands are somewhat rigged. People here call it hand smoothing. I call it a shame. Not every hand should be playable. Sometimes, in the real world, you just get no land or too much land. That doesn't happen here. Some people would say that's a good thing. I'm not so sure I agree. Deciding whether or not to mulligan should be harder than it is here. I had to mulligan ONCE in all the games I've played. I think a realistic hand draw based on real probability and not on some algo would make this a better game,

2. The reward system discourages playing this game a lot. I sometimes run out of things to shoot for early in the day long before I want to stop playing. But what's the point when a win gets you nothing at some point?

3. The rewards themselves, for free players, are almost meaningless. With all the cards I've won (most early on) only 2 were worth putting in my RW deck and those 2 marginally made the deck better. In fact, it's arguable if they even DID make the deck better. As they are one ofs, I've yet to use them. Mostly because this deck is so fast that the game ends usually before those cards are even drawn, let alone cast.

4. Then there is the player base itself. Sometimes I get the feeling that I'm playing against a bot. Two matches today, it took way too much time for them to decide whether to mulligan or not. And the one player scooped on his turn before he even played a card and even knew what I was playing. This leads me to believe that they know that most decks in this format (Standard) are very fast. In my experience, they are lightning fast. Some are even faster than my deck. The ramp I've seen on some of these decks is insane. Point is, I've played some matches where I didn't feel I deserved to win based on how quickly some players quit.

Having said all that, Magic The Gathering has been my favorite game for over 30 years. I have some good memories. I spent a lot of money on cards and at one point owned every legal Legacy top tier deck. Those were incredibly fun days. Every week I would bring a different deck to our Legacy shop. When they closed, I cried. Literally.

I eventually sold all my cards for a crap ton of money simply because there was no place left to play around me. I don't even know what the state of Magic is these days as I haven't really followed either the Standard or Legacy meta in a long time. I'd like to think the game is still healthy but it wouldn't surprise me to find out it's not. Like I said, I'm biased but I can understand if people don't like the current Standard meta. Some of these decks are insane. I don't think the best Legacy decks could keep up with them.

In closing, I think the reward system needs to be seriously revamped so as not to discourage f2p players. Though it is doubtful that will ever happen.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on all this. What I said that you agree with as well as what I said that you don't agree with.

[SquidGrow on ETH]

Originally posted by swagen2167:

I eventually sold all my cards for a crap ton of money

Time for SquidGrow

[Free Palestine]

Originally posted by swagen2167:

First some background so I'm not just some noob new to Magic.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on all this. What I said that you agree with as well as what I said that you don't agree with.

Oh, it gets worse the more you play. Just read the forum. It's a computer game. They rig just about everything from your opening hand to your opponents to how often you go first. It's not random.

Wait til you find out about how they weigh cards and then make sure you face opponents with similar "deck" weight. It's all trash.

[swagen2167]

Originally posted by Free Palestine:

Originally posted by swagen2167:

First some background so I'm not just some noob new to Magic.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on all this. What I said that you agree with as well as what I said that you don't agree with.

Oh, it gets worse the more you play. Just read the forum. It's a computer game. They rig just about everything from your opening hand to your opponents to how often you go first. It's not random.

Wait til you find out about how they weigh cards and then make sure you face opponents with similar "deck" weight. It's all trash.

Okay, but how do you know this? Where is your proof?

[Free Palestine]

Originally posted by swagen2167:

Originally posted by Free Palestine:

Oh, it gets worse the more you play. Just read the forum. It's a computer game. They rig just about everything from your opening hand to your opponents to how often you go first. It's not random.

Wait til you find out about how they weigh cards and then make sure you face opponents with similar "deck" weight. It's all trash.

Okay, but how do you know this? Where is your proof?

You're not Destiny. I don't need to prove obvious things, and no amount of proof would convince you. I have 1200 hours in this game. Do you?

[swagen2167]

Originally posted by Free Palestine:

Originally posted by swagen2167:

Okay, but how do you know this? Where is your proof?

You're not Destiny. I don't need to prove obvious things, and no amount of proof would convince you. I have 1200 hours in this game. Do you?

You know what? You don't have to prove a damn thing to me. But here's what I've observed. I've played against decks that I've totally trounced by turn 5. I've played against decks that have totally trounced me. So where is this balanced deck weight you talk about? If that were the case, every game would be a grind. I have found the opposite to be true. Most games are so one sided it's a joke. So again, where is your proof? Where is anybody's proof? You say obvious? The only thing obvious to me is the opening hands are obviously rigged. Outside of that, the rest seems pretty random. But I can see arguing with you is pointless. You're the guy on the street screaming the world is coming to an end soon and nobody can convince me otherwise. I've learned to cut my losses with people like that.

Have a good day. I assure you I won't be responding to you again.

[Gryfn]

Best of 1 (Bo1) uses a hand smoothing algorithm. This is NOT the shuffler. It's separate. You can think of the bo1 hand smoothing algorithm as a free, automatic mulligan system that is used for BOTH players in bo1 games: "the game shuffles the deck thrice and draws three hands and leans to choose the one with the land/spell ratio closest to the deck’s ratio (no color checks)". It's actually used when you mulligan in bo1 too.

Best of 3 (Bo3) does not use the hand smoothing algorithm.

Bo1 Play (i.e. Unranked) and Brawl formats use MMR + deck strength as part of the matchmaking process. Deck strength is NOT used in bo3 or Ranked modes.

If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3 or Ranked.

Here are some useful links to read carefully. I read misinformation posted here from both sides, so these links are worth reading and bookmarking.
https://mtgazone.com/inner-workings-of-arena/
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-june-3-2024

[swagen2167]

Originally posted by Gryfn:

Best of 1 (Bo1) uses a hand smoothing algorithm. This is NOT the shuffler. It's separate. You can think of the bo1 hand smoothing algorithm as a free, automatic mulligan system that is used for BOTH players in bo1 games: "the game shuffles the deck thrice and draws three hands and leans to choose the one with the land/spell ratio closest to the deck’s ratio (no color checks)". It's actually used when you mulligan in bo1 too.

Best of 3 (Bo3) does not use the hand smoothing algorithm.

Bo1 Play (i.e. Unranked) and Brawl formats use MMR + deck strength as part of the matchmaking process. Deck strength is NOT used in bo3 or Ranked modes.

If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3.

Here are some useful links to read carefully. I read misinformation posted here from both sides, so these links are worth reading and bookmarking.
https://mtgazone.com/inner-workings-of-arena/
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-june-3-2024

Thanks for the info. It's good to know.

[Gryfn]

I should have written "If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3 or Ranked." Edited the original post.

[swagen2167]

Originally posted by Gryfn:

I should have written "If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3 or Ranked." Edited the original post.

I do have a question. If that is true, why are some games so one sided? if deck strength is the same, shouldn't all the games be very competitive?

[Gryfn]

Originally posted by swagen2167:

Originally posted by Gryfn:

I should have written "If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3 or Ranked." Edited the original post.

I do have a question. If that is true, why are some games so one sided? if deck strength is the same, shouldn't all the games be very competitive?

The deck weighting system is just a very simple system. Think they just assign weights to cards. It doesn't consider synergies, etc. And even in a mirror match, someone could just draw way better. Also, because you are a new player, your MMR will be low, so you will be matched against players with a similar MMR. They could be completely new to MTG, whereas you actually are not. An experienced player with the same deck could easily crush someone who is new or drew poorly. When your MMR increases, you should be facing better players.

Bo1 unranked is pretty casual anyway. Nothing is at stake. If you want to be more competitive, play bo3 ranked with sideboards.

[SupaFly]

Originally posted by Gryfn:

Best of 1 (Bo1) uses a hand smoothing algorithm. This is NOT the shuffler. It's separate. You can think of the bo1 hand smoothing algorithm as a free, automatic mulligan system that is used for BOTH players in bo1 games: "the game shuffles the deck thrice and draws three hands and leans to choose the one with the land/spell ratio closest to the deck’s ratio (no color checks)". It's actually used when you mulligan in bo1 too.

Best of 3 (Bo3) does not use the hand smoothing algorithm.

Bo1 Play (i.e. Unranked) and Brawl formats use MMR + deck strength as part of the matchmaking process. Deck strength is NOT used in bo3 or Ranked modes.

If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3 or Ranked.

Here are some useful links to read carefully. I read misinformation posted here from both sides, so these links are worth reading and bookmarking.
https://mtgazone.com/inner-workings-of-arena/
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-june-3-2024

Wouldn't it just make more since to base line fairness instead of hand smoothing here and not there?

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Originally posted by SupaFly:

Wouldn't it just make more since to base line fairness instead of hand smoothing here and not there?

The idea behind it is that in an unranked Bo1 environment, where conceding doesn't have any cost, a lot of players are going to just scoop if they have an opening hand that sucks, so the smoother was implemented to significantly reduce the amount of times that happens.

[SupaFly]

Originally posted by swagen2167:

Originally posted by Free Palestine:

Oh, it gets worse the more you play. Just read the forum. It's a computer game. They rig just about everything from your opening hand to your opponents to how often you go first. It's not random.

Wait til you find out about how they weigh cards and then make sure you face opponents with similar "deck" weight. It's all trash.

Okay, but how do you know this? Where is your proof?

Originally posted by Gryfn:

I should have written "If you want to play without the hand smoothing algorithm, play bo3. If you want to play without deck strength matchmaking, play bo3 or Ranked." Edited the original post.

You shouldn't have to change the mode you play to try and get a fair and balanced game of magic. There should be a baseline of fairness in this game.

[Ha 何豪源]

make up your own experience, then you can either join the rigged faction, the defenders of wotc faction or insult-everyone faction

[Zlehtnoba]

Ha gave you some great advice here, and you seem to be following it judging by your answer to the conspiracy theorist. To your points:

1. The hand smoother was introduced when they introduced best-of-one competitive modes, mostly for draft. Community had a lot to say about best-of-one, for obvious reasons, as losing a counting match to shuffler and missing out on rewards sucks. So they introduced the three loses system and the hand smoother. Later, the hand smoother was introduced to all best-of-one formats. My opinion is that something should be done for these formats when rewards are on the line, but hand smoother may not be the best solution.

2. IMO, this is a good thing. It discourages botting and game addiction. One of the few things in Arena I totally support.

3. Very true. The only meaningful things you get are the wildcards. You should think thrice before using them.

4. This is partly due to point three, no real disadvantage to scooping, and to the speed of current Standard, which I gather you are playing. Online, against a faceless opponent, it's just so easy to quit and go looking for a better hand. That's why I only play Brawl in Constructed, but it will be some time before you can afford a Brawl deck.

Arena is now quite old, and the rewards system seems to be working, so I don't see any meaningful changes to it. I was there when they revamped it to introduce duplicate protection and wildcards, after community was very vocal about the need for dusting. I actually like the system, but not the speed at which we get the rewards.

And finally, welcome, good to see a reasonable, thinking poster here.