are historic and timeless really that different?

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

does one use alchemy rebalances and the other not? whats the difference.

[Tom the Mime Artist]

Yes, they are very different. The alchemy rebalances aren't the major difference, although some definitely matter like ocelot pride and orcish bowmasters. The biggest difference is cards banned from historic for power level or preemptively banned because they would obviously be an issue, like brainstorm, fetch lands, the evoke elementals and show and tell.

The format defining cards for timeless are the one banned in historic for power level reasons so it's a much higher power format. Think turn 1 grief scam or dark ritual into necropotence/Sorin+Elenda or flipping Tamiyo turn 2 with brainstorm and plenty of countermagic and removal backup.

[Imnuktam]

Originally posted by Tom the Mime Artist:

Yes, they are very different.

The format defining cards for timeless are the one banned in historic for power level reasons so it's a much higher power format. Think turn 1 grief scam or dark ritual into necropotence/Sorin+Elenda or flipping Tamiyo turn 2 with brainstorm and plenty of countermagic and removal backup.

How about the deck I have played like 10x because every one watched a video on you tube and then copied it relentlessly making timeless feel like playing this same deck 3 out of 5 games.

Start of game.. Opponent insta quits because they didnt get this combo,, or......

Turn one. Dark ritual > Sorin Imperious bloodlord > drop a vampire like Necropolis regent. (6/5 flying and all creatures gain a +1 / +1 counter for each damage they do).

Turn two. Sorin ravenous neonate > Attack with vamp after giving it +1 / +1 and lifelink from first Sorin and end with a 14/13 before using ravenous to do damage = to life gained.

Did you get dealt a removal spell for two and went first, or a removal for only one mana if you didnt?

If not, you have 6 life while they have 27 along with a 14/13 flying sitting there before you start your second turn.

Honestly quit playing timeless because of that netdeck that just gets played over and over and over.

TLDR - Yes there is a big difference. Timeless just feels broken AF most times I play it and is like playing 5 different people all using the same exact deck that wins by turn 3 or they quit by turn 2 if they missed the combo and try again.

[Tom the Mime Artist]

Originally posted by Imnuktam:

Originally posted by Tom the Mime Artist:

Yes, they are very different.

The format defining cards for timeless are the one banned in historic for power level reasons so it's a much higher power format. Think turn 1 grief scam or dark ritual into necropotence/Sorin+Elenda or flipping Tamiyo turn 2 with brainstorm and plenty of countermagic and removal backup.

How about the deck I have played like 10x because every one watched a video on you tube and then copied it relentlessly making timeless feel like playing this same deck 3 out of 5 games.

Start of game.. Opponent insta quits because they didnt get this combo,, or......

Turn one. Dark ritual > Sorin Imperious bloodlord > drop a vampire like Necropolis regent. (6/5 flying and all creatures gain a +1 / +1 counter for each damage they do).

Turn two. Sorin ravenous neonate > Attack with vamp after giving it +1 / +1 and lifelink from first Sorin and end with a 14/13 before using ravenous to do damage = to life gained.

If that was the Sorin payoff you were facing, you were basically playing against the bad versions of the deck. The good versions have either vein ripper or Saint Elenda (alchemy version) as the Sorin payoff because the ward is probably going to be unpayable early on and even if Elenda is removed, it's leaving behind a 4/4 and probably a 3/2. Saint Elenda is the better one and the life gain also feeds in nicely to the necropotence plan, which is their other target to hit for a turn one dark ritual.
Maybe some spicy ones with Ghalta and Mavren (it's a 12/12 trampler before it connects but you can just swords it) or Lord Xander (discard is nice but gets much worse if it isn't a turn 1 play and can't hardcast it in normal builds if it gets to be a grindier game).

Omnitell will probably be the deck to beat after Aetherdrift for a while - Chrome Mox knocks a turn off the combo which feels like it'll be hard to deal with for decks that normally have a favourable matchup with it like dimir tempo.

[Imnuktam]

That is just one example, most of the decks built around that PW feel exactly the same and all of them have little to no feeling of playing for fun. People either get sorin and something to win on turn 2-3 with or they insta scoop and try again. With dark ritual being banned in historic, I hardly ever see that being played there compared to timeless where it felt like I played against that deck 1 out of 3 games.

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

I think Historic decks aim to win in 3-5 turns. Timeless decks aim to win in 2-3 turns. The card pool isn't much bigger, but the ones that are banned in Historic are usually ridiculously broken.