MAGIC THE GATHERING

[BLOODMODE]

Arena

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Turn 5 tho

[The_Dybbuk_King]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=433046

[Malvastor]

Just have to keep in mind that whenever you see a black deck with any kind of "gain life when enemy loses life" or "enemy loses life when you gain life" effect, they're probably going for this combo. Prioritize your removal accordingly.

[Guzu]

Meanwhile red-based aggro will kill you turn 3 if you don't have instant removal

[BLOODMODE]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Just have to keep in mind that whenever you see a black deck with any kind of "gain life when enemy loses life" or "enemy loses life when you gain life" effect, they're probably going for this combo. Prioritize your removal accordingly.

Yeah it just feels cheap. I'll accept that I"m pretty bad in that regard. If I don't have removal available, I guess that's just the breaks. But to have it infinitely combo? crazy.

What's the red based aggro turn 3?

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by BLOODMODE:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Just have to keep in mind that whenever you see a black deck with any kind of "gain life when enemy loses life" or "enemy loses life when you gain life" effect, they're probably going for this combo. Prioritize your removal accordingly.

Yeah it just feels cheap. I'll accept that I"m pretty bad in that regard. If I don't have removal available, I guess that's just the breaks. But to have it infinitely combo? crazy.

What's the red based aggro turn 3?

Probably a few of them honestly. From a couple minutes of poking around here's one possible option:

T1: Plot Demonic Ruckus
T2: Plot Slickshot Showoff
T3: Cast Slickshot Showoff, Demonic Ruckus (Slickshot is 4 power), Bulk Up (Slickshot is 12 power), attack with it, then sack it with Burn Together

Until most of the components were banned or nerfed, Red could win T2 with Heartfire Hero, Leyline of Resonance, Monstrous Rage, and (again) Burn Together.

[Guzu]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Probably a few of them honestly. From a couple minutes of poking around here's one possible option:

T1: Plot Demonic Ruckus
T2: Plot Slickshot Showoff
T3: Cast Slickshot Showoff, Demonic Ruckus (Slickshot is 4 power), Bulk Up (Slickshot is 12 power), attack with it, then sack it with Burn Together

There's also the basic mouse package that most of them run:

T1: Heartfire Hero
T2: Manifold Mouse => hit for 4 dmg
T3: Monstrous Rage on Heartfire Hero and the last bit of dmg can come from any cards of the deck like Burst Lightning+Monastery Swiftspear, Lightning Strike, Witchstalker Frenzy, Emberheart Challenger etc.

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Until most of the components were banned or nerfed, Red could win T2 with Heartfire Hero, Leyline of Resonance, Monstrous Rage, and (again) Burn Together.

They are only banned in BO1. In BO3 you can still face the Gruul (Jund) Leyline version that can kill you turn 2.

[srpetrinec]

This garbage should be nerfed... you should NEVER get stuck in a cycle where some bozo lucks into an eternal life steal loop, especially if the game won't even let you bail. I am NOT going to sit around for that crap, when I have to wait for 18 points to drain one by one. Either rig the cards so it simply instant-drains, fix the game so we can bail, or nerf the damn thing.
It really takes the fun out of a GOOD loss. Once it starts, I GET the damn point already. Soon as I see that card from now on, I'm just hard-quitting out of Steam, and I'm blackballing any games from people who use it. Is it meant to have this mechanic? Probably. Is it fun? Not after the first time, definitely not when you have to sit through 18+ points and a slow point by point cycle. Should it be banned? Well, not if they fix it so it either speeds up, or doesn't remove the exit so we can simply bail. As it stands, sorry....the developers are sadistic little biotches to create this kind of garbage.

[anaris]

it annoys the ♥♥♥♥ out of me, too, but it's not the enemy player's fault that the interface is awful about it, don't rope.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by Guzu:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Probably a few of them honestly. From a couple minutes of poking around here's one possible option:

T1: Plot Demonic Ruckus
T2: Plot Slickshot Showoff
T3: Cast Slickshot Showoff, Demonic Ruckus (Slickshot is 4 power), Bulk Up (Slickshot is 12 power), attack with it, then sack it with Burn Together

There's also the basic mouse package that most of them run:

T1: Heartfire Hero
T2: Manifold Mouse => hit for 4 dmg
T3: Monstrous Rage on Heartfire Hero and the last bit of dmg can come from any cards of the deck like Burst Lightning+Monastery Swiftspear, Lightning Strike, Witchstalker Frenzy, Emberheart Challenger etc.

Ah yeah, forgot about Manifold.

Originally posted by Guzu:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Until most of the components were banned or nerfed, Red could win T2 with Heartfire Hero, Leyline of Resonance, Monstrous Rage, and (again) Burn Together.

They are only banned in BO1. In BO3 you can still face the Gruul (Jund) Leyline version that can kill you turn 2.

Didn't realize that, interesting

[Zlehtnoba]

Originally posted by srpetrinec:

This garbage should be nerfed... you should NEVER get stuck in a cycle where some bozo lucks into an eternal life steal loop, especially if the game won't even let you bail. I am NOT going to sit around for that crap, when I have to wait for 18 points to drain one by one. Either rig the cards so it simply instant-drains, fix the game so we can bail, or nerf the damn thing.
It really takes the fun out of a GOOD loss. Once it starts, I GET the damn point already. Soon as I see that card from now on, I'm just hard-quitting out of Steam, and I'm blackballing any games from people who use it. Is it meant to have this mechanic? Probably. Is it fun? Not after the first time, definitely not when you have to sit through 18+ points and a slow point by point cycle. Should it be banned? Well, not if they fix it so it either speeds up, or doesn't remove the exit so we can simply bail. As it stands, sorry....the developers are sadistic little biotches to create this kind of garbage.

Standard here mirrors paper Standard, and in paper, you simply tell the opponent how many loops you want to run, and they tell you whether they intend to react, and when. On Arena, they are not able to recognize loops and program this functionality, so they have a backup solution, if an action repeats too many times without a change, game ends in a draw.

It's a legitimate strategy, if you see you will lose, just concede. No need for tilting.

[srpetrinec]

Originally posted by Zlehtnoba:

Originally posted by srpetrinec:

This garbage should be nerfed... you should NEVER get stuck in a cycle where some bozo lucks into an eternal life steal loop, especially if the game won't even let you bail. I am NOT going to sit around for that crap, when I have to wait for 18 points to drain one by one. Either rig the cards so it simply instant-drains, fix the game so we can bail, or nerf the damn thing.
It really takes the fun out of a GOOD loss. Once it starts, I GET the damn point already. Soon as I see that card from now on, I'm just hard-quitting out of Steam, and I'm blackballing any games from people who use it. Is it meant to have this mechanic? Probably. Is it fun? Not after the first time, definitely not when you have to sit through 18+ points and a slow point by point cycle. Should it be banned? Well, not if they fix it so it either speeds up, or doesn't remove the exit so we can simply bail. As it stands, sorry....the developers are sadistic little biotches to create this kind of garbage.

Standard here mirrors paper Standard, and in paper, you simply tell the opponent how many loops you want to run, and they tell you whether they intend to react, and when. On Arena, they are not able to recognize loops and program this functionality, so they have a backup solution, if an action repeats too many times without a change, game ends in a draw.

It's a legitimate strategy, if you see you will lose, just concede. No need for tilting.

Actually...that's part of what I said.... You literally CAN'T concede, unless you hard-close out of the whole program. WHICH is stupid. The loop starts and the button to concede literally disappears, making it IMPOSSIBLE to simply "concede", which is what I would rather do. I shouldn't have to risk file corruptions by hard closing the game but that is exactly what some of those combos force you to do. And For The Record....I don't mind losing to 70+ Thopters, that combo doesn't repeat forever, and honestly I literally watched myself get slammed and LOVED it! It is stupid mechanics like the above mentioned combo, that get stuck in endless repetition, and don't even ALLOW you to concede that irks me.
You claim this mirrors IRL Magic, but you ALSO point out that "you simply tell the opponent how many loops you want to run, and they tell you whether they intend to react, and when", however this combo has NEVER ended in a draw, nor given a second TO react...once it starts, that's it, period. No ability to concede, either. They play the card and it's locked in, starts immediately, the menu button that allows you to concede disappears, and you are either stuck wasting time, or you HAVE to exit the entire game with a hard shutdown.
I'm not complaining about LOSING, I am complaining about the actual mechanics in the game, and unless they FIX those mechanics to at least LET you concede, IMO yes this DOES need to be nerfed because it simply isn't coded properly. If the developers can't TEST this before implementing the cards, then unless they FIX THE CODE, it should be at least temporarily nerfed. Period. It interferes with the game so as to make it impossible to concede.
I guess sadly I will just have to start screencapping the folks who use this garbage, and blacklist them so I bail as soon as I see their name and avatar. I don't LIKE doing that, as a lot of people use different decks, BUT, it's better than getting stuck.

[anaris]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Didn't realize that, interesting

the theory is that anyone who doesn't sideboard enchantment removal was gonna lose anyway :p

[anaris]

Originally posted by Zlehtnoba:

Originally posted by srpetrinec:

This garbage should be nerfed... you should NEVER get stuck in a cycle where some bozo lucks into an eternal life steal loop, especially if the game won't even let you bail. I am NOT going to sit around for that crap, when I have to wait for 18 points to drain one by one. Either rig the cards so it simply instant-drains, fix the game so we can bail, or nerf the damn thing.
It really takes the fun out of a GOOD loss. Once it starts, I GET the damn point already. Soon as I see that card from now on, I'm just hard-quitting out of Steam, and I'm blackballing any games from people who use it. Is it meant to have this mechanic? Probably. Is it fun? Not after the first time, definitely not when you have to sit through 18+ points and a slow point by point cycle. Should it be banned? Well, not if they fix it so it either speeds up, or doesn't remove the exit so we can simply bail. As it stands, sorry....the developers are sadistic little biotches to create this kind of garbage.

Standard here mirrors paper Standard, and in paper, you simply tell the opponent how many loops you want to run, and they tell you whether they intend to react, and when. On Arena, they are not able to recognize loops and program this functionality, so they have a backup solution, if an action repeats too many times without a change, game ends in a draw.

It's a legitimate strategy, if you see you will lose, just concede. No need for tilting.

if an action in paper returns to the same gamestate ie is without a change i think twice, it results in a draw too

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by anaris:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Didn't realize that, interesting

the theory is that anyone who doesn't sideboard enchantment removal was gonna lose anyway :p

Wait, people are playing without enchantment removal? But, like, how do they remove enchantments?