Is this game suitable for a non-meta enjoyer?

[palabyrinth]

So Ive come from Gwent where I think the game is amazing but im sick of playing against the same decks over and over. I played mtg about a decade ago so I know I enjoy the game. Which format do people play non-meta decks and meta decks are frowned upon? if this isnt the right game for that could you recommend me one? thanks

edit:before someone says all games suffer from meta - minion masters doesnt but im bored of it

[pozertron]

Playing historic is probably the worst recommendation for a new player. Historic decks are stupid expensive, it doesn't help that a Brawl deck is 100 cards instead of 60 making it even more expensive. And if you play a subpar deck that you just casually built, you're most likely just going to get blown up in a few turns.

[Nubbles]

Originally posted by pozertron:

Playing historic is probably the worst recommendation for a new player. Historic decks are stupid expensive, it doesn't help that a Brawl deck is 100 cards instead of 60 making it even more expensive. And if you play a subpar deck that you just casually built, you're most likely just going to get blown up in a few turns.

Artisan balmor destroys the que though.

[Θωμάς76]

If you value your mental health stay away from this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. 1/3 of the reviewers would tell you it is not worth it, everyone will tell you it is a time sink. The only thing that drawed me back to this game is the exploitation of pop culture like Lord of the Rings. I don't care a bit about their stupid planeswalkers and the stories.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by pozertron:

Playing historic is probably the worst recommendation for a new player. Historic decks are stupid expensive, it doesn't help that a Brawl deck is 100 cards instead of 60 making it even more expensive. And if you play a subpar deck that you just casually built, you're most likely just going to get blown up in a few turns.

You can win with starter decks in historic. The price tag for historic is literally free, that's how huge the pool of viable decks is. Literally free. Not only that, you're MORE likely to win in historic with a casual deck you built yourself than a deck you copied from someone else that you have no clue how to use.

All you've said here is that you don't know how to play or build an MtG deck.

[pozertron]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by pozertron:

Playing historic is probably the worst recommendation for a new player. Historic decks are stupid expensive, it doesn't help that a Brawl deck is 100 cards instead of 60 making it even more expensive. And if you play a subpar deck that you just casually built, you're most likely just going to get blown up in a few turns.

You can win with starter decks in historic. The price tag for historic is literally free, that's how huge the pool of viable decks is. Literally free. Not only that, you're MORE likely to win in historic with a casual deck you built yourself than a deck you copied from someone else that you have no clue how to use.

All you've said here is that you don't know how to play or build an MtG deck.

Of course i don't, i'm a new player, just like him. And just like him i was recommended historic, wasted all my resources on a Historic deck, now i have nothing and the only thing i can play is Historic that gives you nothing for your time except dailies sometimes.
Also 90% of the cards in historic can only be used in Historic, so even if i wanted, i couldn't use them anywhere else.

[Harmonica]

As a new player your best resource is the starter decks. Aside from that I don't really understand what you've wasted. You can earn the same amount of gold playing in Historic, and use that to open standard packs if you want to play that instead (which you'll also get by winning games weekly)... the standard cards being playable in Historic too.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by pozertron:

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

You can win with starter decks in historic. The price tag for historic is literally free, that's how huge the pool of viable decks is. Literally free. Not only that, you're MORE likely to win in historic with a casual deck you built yourself than a deck you copied from someone else that you have no clue how to use.

All you've said here is that you don't know how to play or build an MtG deck.

Of course i don't, i'm a new player, just like him. And just like him i was recommended historic, wasted all my resources on a Historic deck, now i have nothing and the only thing i can play is Historic that gives you nothing for your time except dailies sometimes.
Also 90% of the cards in historic can only be used in Historic, so even if i wanted, i couldn't use them anywhere else.

... those dailies are the only thing you can get from the game outside of just the fun of playing. I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

[Winter Wolf]

pozertron does make an overlooked point. Wild cards are nonrefundable resources that we get to spend however we want and spending them on decks that require a lot of them is indeed a fool's errand. New players should be aware of what their limitations are before investing their resources unwisely.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

pozertron does make an overlooked point. Wild cards are nonrefundable resources that we get to spend however we want and spending them on decks that require a lot of them is indeed a fool's errand. New players should be aware of what their limitations are before investing their resources unwisely.

Wildcards are a resource, yes, but I think you're ignoring the vital point that you can just run a basic version of decks and then upgrade them as you play. At no point do you NEED wildcards to play your deck.

[Winter Wolf]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

pozertron does make an overlooked point. Wild cards are nonrefundable resources that we get to spend however we want and spending them on decks that require a lot of them is indeed a fool's errand. New players should be aware of what their limitations are before investing their resources unwisely.

Wildcards are a resource, yes, but I think you're ignoring the vital point that you can just run a basic version of decks and then upgrade them as you play. At no point do you NEED wildcards to play your deck.

I think it is rather funny that you think I am ignoring that you **can** go outside in public in just your underwear. I kid, but seriously, budget deck play is often miserable. It is not impossible to go from a single budget deck to well-heeled decks which is how most of us started and did the thing, however, it is a painful grindy process compared to paying for the things that get you the things you need to win. Because that is intentional.

Now that we have taken care of the point about need vs want, let's talk about the consequences of spending your resources poorly. Yes, you will eventually get more wcs. Every 6 (non drafted) packs opened = a rare or mythic rare wc so eventually even if you misspend every single wc you will eventually after years have a respectable collection.

That does not mean it isn't a consideration. In fact despite knowing you will eventually level up no matter how badly you do, it is still demoralizing to misspend. And it is wise to at least minimally check to see what cards fit in what deck archetypes to help you have success in the game. It is foolish to suggest that people should ignore the meta and ignore what is going on in the world of magic while building decks.

As a proponent of brewing and rogue play I totally get behind the idea of "do it your own way" but I also played for many years against pro players and wannabe pros and semi pros and those who just excel at certain aspects of the game, and ingrained within my meager skillset gained from that experience is the idea is there is no such thing as too much information regarding builds or how to play the game. In my opinion if you want to be a good rogue deck build I suggest studying what successful deck builders are doing because then when you break the rules/meta expectations you are doing so armed with knowledge instead of hoping and praying for better results.

That said I will acknowledge that it is truly Zen to just give way to the spirit of the game and let it be fun no matter what obstacles you face. A difficult state of mind to achieve but quite enlightening once you get there.

[Harmonica]

I do agree with that. Still though newbies will always make mistakes and telling them to spend WCs on specific decks is probably also a mistake in itself, since how are they meant to know what deck/archetype they're going to enjoy playing? That's the most important thing, after all, so that they stick at the game and improve and build their collection etc. Basically having room to fail but enjoy learning is very important in games like Magic.

It doesn't matter if their decks are good because they're not going to be playing them optimally, they will mostly only take wins off other new players, so they have to play the game for more than just the desire to win every match (since that won't happen for a long time if ever).

My first decks were absolute nonsense filled with the kind of bad cards that aren't printed very often anymore, in the wrong card counts, with bad curves, before discovering things like Ensoul Artifact and that two card combos can steal a win on their own! After that a lot of my early decks were just cards that did some weird thing, or had nice art, not good decks, but that's fine.

In many ways i think the spikes have it hardest especially those competitive players coming in from other games, since they have an expectation of competing but many years of knowledge to accumulate before they can reliably dor that. The rest of us who care more about deckbuilding and the flavour of the game can get enjoyment even whilst losing more than we win :)

[BUGG DOMI]

Stay Away. Wall-lickers taking forever on turns and quitters who quit when they dont get their GOD hand.

[Winter Wolf]

Originally posted by BUGG DOMI:

Stay Away. Wall-lickers taking forever on turns and quitters who quit when they dont get their GOD hand.

Seems almost lyrical. "wall-lickers and lickety splitters, the first delay forever and the last are cowardly quitters."

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Wildcards are a resource, yes, but I think you're ignoring the vital point that you can just run a basic version of decks and then upgrade them as you play. At no point do you NEED wildcards to play your deck.

I think it is rather funny that you think I am ignoring that you **can** go outside in public in just your underwear. I kid, but seriously, budget deck play is often miserable. It is not impossible to go from a single budget deck to well-heeled decks which is how most of us started and did the thing, however, it is a painful grindy process compared to paying for the things that get you the things you need to win. Because that is intentional.

Now that we have taken care of the point about need vs want, let's talk about the consequences of spending your resources poorly. Yes, you will eventually get more wcs. Every 6 (non drafted) packs opened = a rare or mythic rare wc so eventually even if you misspend every single wc you will eventually after years have a respectable collection.

That does not mean it isn't a consideration. In fact despite knowing you will eventually level up no matter how badly you do, it is still demoralizing to misspend. And it is wise to at least minimally check to see what cards fit in what deck archetypes to help you have success in the game. It is foolish to suggest that people should ignore the meta and ignore what is going on in the world of magic while building decks.

As a proponent of brewing and rogue play I totally get behind the idea of "do it your own way" but I also played for many years against pro players and wannabe pros and semi pros and those who just excel at certain aspects of the game, and ingrained within my meager skillset gained from that experience is the idea is there is no such thing as too much information regarding builds or how to play the game. In my opinion if you want to be a good rogue deck build I suggest studying what successful deck builders are doing because then when you break the rules/meta expectations you are doing so armed with knowledge instead of hoping and praying for better results.

That said I will acknowledge that it is truly Zen to just give way to the spirit of the game and let it be fun no matter what obstacles you face. A difficult state of mind to achieve but quite enlightening once you get there.

I'm sorry if you lack the basic strategic insight required to build a good deck on your own. That's not really a reason to disparage the concept of building your own decks.

It shouldn't need to be said that a newbie copying a meta deck will lose to anybody else copying a meta deck. Whereas if they build their own deck that they actually know how to use, they have a distinct advantage over anybody copying the meta, because predictability is the number one strategic mistake that can be made, ever. If you are recommending that a player who lacks experience try to build for a matchup entirely reliant on experience, you're either an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ trying to sabotage them, or an idiot who doesn't know how to succeed in the first place.

There's nothing "zen" about being cognizant of how metagames work in general. The more experienced player has the advantage in a mirror, period. Therefore, the absolute worst advice to give to a player unfamiliar with the meta is to play a dominant deck in the metagame. It sets them up for failure, because those are the decks that people are most prepared to defeat. The best advice is and will always be to come up with a deck concept, build it, and optimize it through play tests and trial runs using your best judgment until you're either satisfied enough to call it done or disappointed enough to give up on that concept. That will build up all of the same valuable skills and knowledge that piloting a meta deck will, while also improving their intuitive understanding of good deck-building principles in general, which will improve in-game judgment and understanding of both their own deck and every potential opponent's deck, not just the meta ones.

By all means, mope about your own inadequacies, but don't project them onto others to trick them into the same doom spiral you're subjecting yourself to.

[BobbyRunout]

^ It's also just way more fulfilling and validating to cook your own (not to mention more fun). I'd rather be able to take 90% of the credit for a 30% win rate than 10% of the credit for a 70% win rate. If you can do basic arithmetic, you should feel the same!