Defending against toxic blitz decks in Standard

[BobbyRunout]

Since there is not a lot that defends specifically against toxic / removes poison counters, what's your plan? Just bank on those decks being too rare to worry about?

[pozertron]

I just go next, don't even bother playing. The moment i see that 1/2 that puts a counter on you anytime it's targeted, i'm out. Take your win, i don't need the headache

[Nubbles]

Originally posted by wly_cdgr:

Since there is not a lot that defends specifically against toxic / removes poison counters, what's your plan? Just bank on those decks being too rare to worry about?

If there was nothing you could do against it, those decks would win more and they wouldn't be rare. You either race them or you control their board, depending on what deck you were playing.

[Soji]

Most of those decks from my experience are piloted by mediocre at best players so i just wait for a misplay to capitalize on. Which is usually when they tap out and leave their rot priest exposed or just being unable to math properly

[Berserkr]

Rarely ever run into those decks in Historic but I keep 3 copies of Solemnity in my black/white deck that's usually enough to stop it

[PROUFUNDUS]

As someone who has a couple decks capable of Toxic, here's some advice.
1. If they have anything that lets them proliferate: Don't let them use it. Counter-spell it. Remove/Kill/Destroy/Exile it. Flying and Vigilance are your best friends here.
2. They have to set up, usually, so play aggressively. Again, Vigilance will aid in this and so will Flying.

Fortunately, cards that Proliferate are fairly few in numbers regardless of the color. Cards that DO cause some sort of Proliferation are pretty weak, too. Thrummingbird, Guildpact Informant, and Grateful Soul (Specter? Spirit?) are good examples of this: They're all 1/1's if I'm not mistaken, and cost 1-2 mana.

Atraxa, Voice of the Praetor, is a 4/4 White, Blue, Green, Black card with Flying, Vigilance, Death Touch, and "At the end of your turn, proliferate".

Then you have to worry about, of course, cards with toxic. Even one is enough for this player to be a threat. Cards you may find them using include: Voidwing Hybrid (A 2/1 Blue-Black Phyrexian Bat with Flying, Toxic 1, and "Whenever you proliferate, if Voidwing Hybrid is in your Graveyard, return it to your hand"), Ichor Aberration (a 3/3 Blue-Black flying defender that gets a PERPETUAL +1/+1 for every proliferation and can be cast from the graveyard until the end of a turn whenever you prolfierate.

If they have even one black card, they may or may not have "Ichor Drinker" which activates an Incubate 2 upon death.

I love making these decks and know how exactly to be countered, so I'm happy to show others how to pummel me into the ground even though it will inevitably frustrate me when I'm not allowed to set up.

[Winter Wolf]

I dislike the poison mechanic and always have since the early days of M:TG (Legends) and would love for WOTC to stop exploiting this particular idea in the design space. However since it is here and we can't stop them from doing things with poison might as well figure out how to beat the idea.

First thing is, poison/toxic decks have a risk associated with their shortcut to winning. IE: they depend on their creatures (or yours in the case of phyresis proliferate decks) to get the job done. So as long as you are running enough removal you should have a good chance of removing their win cons. The downside of this is you need to configure your deck to withstand an early aggro start and also have win cons of your own. Which means chump blockers, spot removal and sweepers and then also manlands. This is one reason imho we have so many manlands in Standard right now.

Grollander has some more general suggestions above that seem decent (though not Standard format specific).

[Berserkr]

Originally posted by Grollender Stahl:

1. If they have anything that lets them proliferate: Don't let them use it. Counter-spell it. Remove/Kill/Destroy/Exile it. Flying and Vigilance are your best friends here.

The worse proliferate is the land that does it imo

[PROUFUNDUS]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

... Grollender has some more general suggestions above that seem decent (though not Standard format specific).

Yeah I tend to go for Historic. Still, the basis is there. You got it down quite well too.

[PROUFUNDUS]

Originally posted by Berserkr:

The worse proliferate is the land that does it imo

Karn's Bastion, yeah. And don't forget the Evolution sage with it's ability to proliferate every time its owner plays a land card.

My best friend used a card called "awaken the forest" with that card out and tapped ALL their mana (lands and creatures) to make 28 land druid tokens, which were doubled by "doubling season", causing that card to proliferate 56 times. So folks, watch out for this combo...

[Berserkr]

Originally posted by Grollender Stahl:

My best friend used a card called "awaken the forest" with that card out and tapped ALL their mana (lands and creatures) to make 28 land druid tokens, which were doubled by "doubling season", causing that card to proliferate 56 times. So folks, watch out for this combo...

yeah I had the other night the opponent had the cauldron familiar and the other black creature that gets +1/+1 when they have a creature of theirs die, I stupidly tapped out to play my Cosmos elixir and they played Bilbo, Had to concede or sit there for an hour till they had their 20/20 to swing with, sucks I had two removals in my hand as well, live and learn I guess lol

[non]

To all those complaining I´d highly suggest to play it yourself and see, how hit and miss it is.

[PROUFUNDUS]

Originally posted by non:

To all those complaining I´d highly suggest to play it yourself and see, how hit and miss it is.

This right here. Try it and you'll learn it and probably like it. You'll also learn how to effectively counter it.

[Soji]

Originally posted by non:

To all those complaining I´d highly suggest to play it yourself and see, how hit and miss it is.

This right here is my experience with any deck I tend to be annoyed by and decide to play it to learn its weaknesses better. Poison is no different. Even tho its still 10 to win, sometimes getting those last 3 or 4 can be difficult before your opponent manages to stabilize or you run out of gas.

[fourskulls]

I actually won against a toxic deck tonight. They got their two Rot Priests or whatever down in the first 2 turns, but one became a legit business man, and the other got perma-tapped.

They kept on throwing stuff out, and I kept on locking it down with auras + Eriette. They tried some sort of late game swing with that big dinosaur, but I threw out Asinine Antics right after and made their whole board a bunch of 1/1's (that couldn't attack). Katilda showed up there at the end, and was a big enough threat that they didn't attack with the 2 fliers they had.

Was pretty sweet watching them take 7~8 damage a turn, healing me, and them not being able to attack. Took it like a champ too, stayed to the very end.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Berserkr:

Originally posted by Grollender Stahl:

1. If they have anything that lets them proliferate: Don't let them use it. Counter-spell it. Remove/Kill/Destroy/Exile it. Flying and Vigilance are your best friends here.

The worse proliferate is the land that does it imo

Wait until you see you can make a deck that has more proliferate than land, and every proliferate spell is either a draw spell, a removal spell, or both. An actual toxic deck's goal is to cast less than 10 spells in the entire match. Karn's Bastion is hilariously slow for a deck that plans on winning before they ever get a chance to activate it.