Burrowgaurd mentor Does not combo with cottontail caretaker

[sanders.robert85]

Why wouldn't burrowgaurd mentors offspring not have his ability if the offspring reads make a copy

[Winter Wolf]

Postat inițial de sanders.robert85:

I do understand really, I do. Although i still believe that with out word saying it removes specific effects it should still get the effect.I kinda don't care if it messes with the games mechanics. If your are gonna put in cards that can mess with the game mechanic so hard you have to make specific rulings to fix the game just don't make it. The game has a long running streak of every new set has to be more and more powerful to force everyone to keep buying cards. You know pushing there pay to win and cheat while shuffling game model.

Tell it to the judges. They are the ones who decided the floor rules which govern this game. (This game is designed primarily for tournament play in paper.) This is not an arbitrary change you are asking for but a complete rewrite of a huge rulebook that's been evolving over 30 years.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Postat inițial de "MTG Comprehensive Rules":

707.9d When applying a copy effect that doesn’t copy a certain characteristic, retains one or more original values for a certain characteristic, or provides a specific set of values for a certain characteristic, any characteristic-defining ability (see rule 604.3) of the object being copied that defines that characteristic is not copied. If that characteristic is color, any color indicator (see rule 204) of that object is also not copied. This rule does not apply to copy effects with exceptions that state the object is a certain card type, supertype, and/or subtype “in addition to its other types.” In those cases, any characteristic-defining ability that defines card type, supertype, and/or subtype is copied.

Example: Quicksilver Gargantuan is a creature that reads, “You may have Quicksilver Gargantuan enter as a copy of any creature on the battlefield, except it’s 7/7.” Quicksilver Gargantuan enters the battlefield as a copy of Tarmogoyf, which has a characteristic-defining ability that defines its power and toughness. Quicksilver Gargantuan does not have that ability. It will be 7/7.

[magnumaniac]

Postat inițial de sanders.robert85:

But when you offspring the card it actually removes the ability from the copy. Offspring has no wording that would remove an ability from the card.

Not quite true, it is replacing an ability with one that affects the same stats of the card.

It replaces "Power and toughness are equal to the number of creatures you control" with "Power and toughness are equal to 1". Both of these cannot be true at the same time, so the replacement effect wins.

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

Postat inițial de sanders.robert85:

But when you offspring the card it actually removes the ability from the copy.

Not really. */* is replaced with 1/1. The ability affects only *. It's like using "Turn to Frog" that turns enemy creature into a frog to prevent it from being something else. Lets say you have ability that gives bonuses to your goblins, but your opponent turns your goblin into a frog. Does it removes the ability? No. Then why it doesn't affect the goblin anymore? Because it's not a goblin anymore. The ability still exists, it just doesn't apply to anyone. Similar with effects like "this unit has first strike as long it has 2 or more attack" - the ability still exists even if its attack is lower than that, it just doesn't have any effect.

Replacing "*" with any number won't work if there is no "*" anywhere.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Guys, I know people like ignoring me on here, but I posted the official answer from the Comprehensive Rules a couple posts up (#17). It is a characteristic-defining ability, which does not get copied during copy effects.

[John-Silver]

Postat inițial de Kurt Angle's Neck:

Guys, I know people like ignoring me on here, but I posted the official answer from the Comprehensive Rules a couple posts up (#17). It is a characteristic-defining ability, which does not get copied during copy effects.

This, I also don't get why people are ignoring your answer, essentially the higher number wins and 1/1 is bigger than */* if that's easier for people to understand.

[nul]

The cards may be new, but the ruling isn't. Changing this ruling would break almost every copying effect.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Postat inițial de John-Silver:

essentially the higher number wins and 1/1 is bigger than */*

Well, no... that's not what's going on here. I'll break it down a bit further to add clarity.

The term "Characteristic-Defining Ability" is a defined term in the Comprehensive Rules;

604.3. Some static abilities are characteristic-defining abilities. A characteristic-defining ability conveys information about an object’s characteristics that would normally be found elsewhere on that object (such as in its mana cost, type line, or power/toughness box). Characteristic-defining abilities can add to or override information found elsewhere on that object. Characteristic-defining abilities function in all zones. They also function outside the game and before the game begins.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.

The ability on Burrowguard Mentor, because it meets all 5 of those conditions, is a Characteristic-Defining Ability. That brings us to 707.9d, which is what I posted earlier, which says:

When applying a copy effect that doesn’t copy a certain characteristic, retains one or more original values for a certain characteristic, or provides a specific set of values for a certain characteristic, any characteristic-defining ability (see rule 604.3) of the object being copied that defines that characteristic is not copied.

Since Offspring 'provides a specific set of values for a certain characteristic' (1/1 for attack/toughness), the character-Defining Ability of Burrowguard Mentor doesn't get copied.

[John-Silver]

Postat inițial de Kurt Angle's Neck:

Postat inițial de John-Silver:

essentially the higher number wins and 1/1 is bigger than */*

Well, no... that's not what's going on here. I'll break it down a bit further to add clarity.

I wasn't being literal sorry it's just how I think of in my head, kinda like the "don't always wins" saying

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Try "for each" as search if you want scaling offspring creatures. They aren't rabitts though and are usually 0/0s there's at least 4 in standard. Maybe sherrif of safe passage would work for you. Maybe botanical brawler since they would trigger each other coming in