so is mono red aggro intentional?

[Aleta, Immortal Sufferer]

it feels weird to me that a deck can win on turn 2 in such a uninteractive manner especially with how interesting mechanically duskmorn is, idk im just kinda sad the dread deck is completely blown out of standered for how fun it is in draft

[Legs0fSteel]

From what i've sen many colors have ways to stop red aggro pretty easily even with a good hand.

Both black and white have cheap ways to remove and exile at instant speed.
Blue has creatures with a counterspell attached and can bounce.
Boros has lifelink + removal on multiple cards.
Golgari has that 3/3 first striker they can give ward.
Mono black has multiple ways to make the opp discard.

Looks to me like there are plenty of ways to stop it not 100% of the time it is a card game but it's not as hopeless as people make it out to be.

[Stockwerk 13]

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

it feels weird to me that a deck can win on turn 2 in such a uninteractive manner especially with how interesting mechanically duskmorn is, idk im just kinda sad the dread deck is completely blown out of standered for how fun it is in draft

it is stupid, if your unlucky and dont have a counter you can't do anything

turn 2 win should not be a thing in bo1 standart, at all.

previous mono red aggro was annoying allready but with latest patch turn 2 win is absolutely braindead

[John-Silver]

Originally posted by Stockwerk 13:

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

it feels weird to me that a deck can win on turn 2 in such a uninteractive manner especially with how interesting mechanically duskmorn is, idk im just kinda sad the dread deck is completely blown out of standered for how fun it is in draft

it is stupid, if your unlucky and dont have a counter you can't do anything

turn 2 win should not be a thing in bo1 standart, at all.

previous mono red aggro was annoying allready but with latest patch turn 2 win is absolutely braindead

I'm sorry but this statement is kinda jokes, BO1 the format with handsmoothing to promote less variety in decks to remove "nongames" sounds like a format to me that would embrace if not push for 2-3 turn winning combos, if it helps you at all whenever you verse a deck in BO1 (And I know this will catch me some flack) I've started to think of it as a best of 3 match where both me and the opponent had a horrible hand game and we got to skip it and didn't have to sit their and play/watch it happen.

[5P4RK4]

Originally posted by John-Silver:

Originally posted by Stockwerk 13:

it is stupid, if your unlucky and dont have a counter you can't do anything

turn 2 win should not be a thing in bo1 standart, at all.

previous mono red aggro was annoying allready but with latest patch turn 2 win is absolutely braindead

I'm sorry but this statement is kinda jokes, BO1 the format with handsmoothing to promote less variety in decks to remove "nongames" sounds like a format to me that would embrace if not push for 2-3 turn winning combos, if it helps you at all whenever you verse a deck in BO1 (And I know this will catch me some flack) I've started to think of it as a best of 3 match where both me and the opponent had a horrible hand game and we got to skip it and didn't have to sit their and play/watch it happen.

what do non games have to do with t2 wins lol

[John-Silver]

Originally posted by 5P4RK4:

Originally posted by John-Silver:

I'm sorry but this statement is kinda jokes, BO1 the format with handsmoothing to promote less variety in decks to remove "nongames" sounds like a format to me that would embrace if not push for 2-3 turn winning combos, if it helps you at all whenever you verse a deck in BO1 (And I know this will catch me some flack) I've started to think of it as a best of 3 match where both me and the opponent had a horrible hand game and we got to skip it and didn't have to sit their and play/watch it happen.

what do non games have to do with t2 wins lol

In our mind? Nothing, in WoTC's not getting your t2 or t3 game for a deck that only has that as a win con = nongame. I know I sound like I'm joking but I'm honestly not, I believe that their vision when it comes to bo1 is that narrow.

[Aleta, Immortal Sufferer]

Originally posted by Legs0fSteel:

From what i've sen many colors have ways to stop red aggro pretty easily even with a good hand.

Both black and white have cheap ways to remove and exile at instant speed.
Blue has creatures with a counterspell attached and can bounce.
Boros has lifelink + removal on multiple cards.
Golgari has that 3/3 first striker they can give ward.
Mono black has multiple ways to make the opp discard.

Looks to me like there are plenty of ways to stop it not 100% of the time it is a card game but it's not as hopeless as people make it out to be.

one of the major issues im having is that even with those control tools,
heart-fire hero and cacophony scamp invalidate any counter play outside of counter spells however the deck is so mana efficient that often the blue player is spending their turn to deal with one of two game threatening 1 drops
ive lost many a game to my opponent responding to go for the throat with a bunch of instants to deal upwards of 10-15 dmg face and then close out with top decks or the draws off might of the meek
and blockers seem pointless when felonious rage, might of meek push damage through regardless while still building advantage or just out right winning with scamp and heartfire
lifelink can help but the deck is stacking alot of dmg on guys who deal it twice or boards that scale very fast making it a stopgap at best
and having played mono black the discards help but the most cost effective discard is the bat that gets easily outed by the scamp and shock,
the deck goes under and over its counters very hard to the point where it feels the entire format has warped around it to still eak out a maybe 40-30% match-up on a good day

[Legs0fSteel]

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

Originally posted by Legs0fSteel:

From what i've sen many colors have ways to stop red aggro pretty easily even with a good hand.

Both black and white have cheap ways to remove and exile at instant speed.
Blue has creatures with a counterspell attached and can bounce.
Boros has lifelink + removal on multiple cards.
Golgari has that 3/3 first striker they can give ward.
Mono black has multiple ways to make the opp discard.

Looks to me like there are plenty of ways to stop it not 100% of the time it is a card game but it's not as hopeless as people make it out to be.

one of the major issues im having is that even with those control tools,
heart-fire hero and cacophony scamp invalidate any counter play outside of counter spells however the deck is so mana efficient that often the blue player is spending their turn to deal with one of two game threatening 1 drops
ive lost many a game to my opponent responding to go for the throat with a bunch of instants to deal upwards of 10-15 dmg face and then close out with top decks or the draws off might of the meek
and blockers seem pointless when felonious rage, might of meek push damage through regardless while still building advantage or just out right winning with scamp and heartfire
lifelink can help but the deck is stacking alot of dmg on guys who deal it twice or boards that scale very fast making it a stopgap at best
and having played mono black the discards help but the most cost effective discard is the bat that gets easily outed by the scamp and shock,
the deck goes under and over its counters very hard to the point where it feels the entire format has warped around it to still eak out a maybe 40-30% match-up on a good day

It's BO1 and monored aggro has always been a huge staple in the BO1 meta we've alwaays had to deak with it and we've always had tools do deal with it.

This format seems no different to me.

Sure red can kill on turn 2 but many colors got new stufff like black/white can reanimate on turn 4 instead of 5 and i'm sure the other colors got something cool as well.

If you don't want to deal with mono red as much go play BO3 and you ccan dedicate your whole sideboard to counter it.

[Aleta, Immortal Sufferer]

Originally posted by Legs0fSteel:

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

one of the major issues im having is that even with those control tools,
heart-fire hero and cacophony scamp invalidate any counter play outside of counter spells however the deck is so mana efficient that often the blue player is spending their turn to deal with one of two game threatening 1 drops
ive lost many a game to my opponent responding to go for the throat with a bunch of instants to deal upwards of 10-15 dmg face and then close out with top decks or the draws off might of the meek
and blockers seem pointless when felonious rage, might of meek push damage through regardless while still building advantage or just out right winning with scamp and heartfire
lifelink can help but the deck is stacking alot of dmg on guys who deal it twice or boards that scale very fast making it a stopgap at best
and having played mono black the discards help but the most cost effective discard is the bat that gets easily outed by the scamp and shock,
the deck goes under and over its counters very hard to the point where it feels the entire format has warped around it to still eak out a maybe 40-30% match-up on a good day

It's BO1 and monored aggro has always been a huge staple in the BO1 meta we've alwaays had to deak with it and we've always had tools do deal with it.

This format seems no different to me.

Sure red can kill on turn 2 but many colors got new stufff like black/white can reanimate on turn 4 instead of 5 and i'm sure the other colors got something cool as well.

If you don't want to deal with mono red as much go play BO3 and you ccan dedicate your whole sideboard to counter it.

this is alot of apologia that doesn't address anything i said my point is the tools fall flat to uninteractive and clearly over-tuned cards, if the only defense to criticism of a clear one deck format is don't like it don't play there is something wrong with the format no? EDH before ban-lists had lotsa consistent ftks and that was fixed some dont like the choices on that but generally the formats high power with clear staples yet still varied. there have been emergency bans in over-tuned standard formats in the past, and bo3 is also warped around the deck in question, it honestly baffles me to see this kind of argument and defense of a broken format as aggro always has a well defined place in mtg but 2 turn kills are what yugioh is for.

[Legs0fSteel]

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

Originally posted by Legs0fSteel:

It's BO1 and monored aggro has always been a huge staple in the BO1 meta we've alwaays had to deak with it and we've always had tools do deal with it.

This format seems no different to me.

Sure red can kill on turn 2 but many colors got new stufff like black/white can reanimate on turn 4 instead of 5 and i'm sure the other colors got something cool as well.

If you don't want to deal with mono red as much go play BO3 and you ccan dedicate your whole sideboard to counter it.

this is alot of apologia that doesn't address anything i said my point is the tools fall flat to uninteractive and clearly over-tuned cards, if the only defense to criticism of a clear one deck format is don't like it don't play there is something wrong with the format no? EDH before ban-lists had lotsa consistent ftks and that was fixed some dont like the choices on that but generally the formats high power with clear staples yet still varied. there have been emergency bans in over-tuned standard formats in the past, and bo3 is also warped around the deck in question, it honestly baffles me to see this kind of argument and defense of a broken format as aggro always has a well defined place in mtg but 2 turn kills are what yugioh is for.

Like i said standard has been warped around mono red for years also ''one deck format'' is a bit much Untapped.gg shows it as 17% played with boros aggro at 12% and black discard at 9% ,Momo red dossn't even have the highest win rate
If it really was a one deck format monored would be much higher and the other 2 decks in the topp 3 would be direct counters to it and they aren't.

Also you saying ''i don't like that red can kill turn 2'' and ''it's clearly overtumed'' andd when i give you ways to beat red and give you examples that many more colors have gotten way better tools earlier you go ''this is alot of apologia'' you don't actually want to play you want to whine.

Also yu-gi-oh turn 2? that's funny games end turn one when you either handtrap the other player to death or they make a board with 10 interuptions and you scoop.

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

I would disagree with statement that mono red is not interactive. There are many ways of interacting with mono red. Also mono red player has greater chance of winning when they adapt the strategy to opponents. But I would agree with a statements like "there is not much time to interact with mono red" (especially if it goes first) or "mono red is overall less interactive than some decks".

To be honest, I've more issues with first player's advantage than mono red in general (mostly because mono red is much smaller threat when it goes second). But still, I don't like the idea of finishing the game in 2nd turn, it feels too much like a toss of a coin.

When it comes to Leyline of Resonance, I think making it cost R during the first turn would slow it down enough.

[Aleta, Immortal Sufferer]

Originally posted by Legs0fSteel:

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

this is alot of apologia that doesn't address anything i said my point is the tools fall flat to uninteractive and clearly over-tuned cards, if the only defense to criticism of a clear one deck format is don't like it don't play there is something wrong with the format no? EDH before ban-lists had lotsa consistent ftks and that was fixed some dont like the choices on that but generally the formats high power with clear staples yet still varied. there have been emergency bans in over-tuned standard formats in the past, and bo3 is also warped around the deck in question, it honestly baffles me to see this kind of argument and defense of a broken format as aggro always has a well defined place in mtg but 2 turn kills are what yugioh is for.

Like i said standard has been warped around mono red for years also ''one deck format'' is a bit much Untapped.gg shows it as 17% played with boros aggro at 12% and black discard at 9% ,Momo red dossn't even have the highest win rate
If it really was a one deck format monored would be much higher and the other 2 decks in the topp 3 would be direct counters to it and they aren't.

Also you saying ''i don't like that red can kill turn 2'' and ''it's clearly overtumed'' andd when i give you ways to beat red and give you examples that many more colors have gotten way better tools earlier you go ''this is alot of apologia'' you don't actually want to play you want to whine.

Also yu-gi-oh turn 2? that's funny games end turn one when you either handtrap the other player to death or they make a board with 10 interuptions and you scoop.

untapped.gg statistics are flawed in this as a version of the deck is rackdos aswell there is a boros variant the core, the playstyle, and outcomes of the decks remain the same
do you mean the examples i directly addressed as to why they fall flat
and you cant attack on turn 1 in yugioh silly billy
doesnt it get tiring to defend something clearly wrong

[Aleta, Immortal Sufferer]

Originally posted by Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn:

I would disagree with statement that mono red is not interactive. There are many ways of interacting with mono red. Also mono red player has greater chance of winning when they adapt the strategy to opponents. But I would agree with a statements like "there is not much time to interact with mono red" (especially if it goes first) or "mono red is overall less interactive than some decks".

To be honest, I've more issues with first player's advantage than mono red in general (mostly because mono red is much smaller threat when it goes second). But still, I don't like the idea of finishing the game in 2nd turn, it feels too much like a toss of a coin.

When it comes to Leyline of Resonance, I think making it cost R during the first turn would slow it down enough.

i think mono red is usually one of the most interesting decks to interact with, i was a big fan of goblins in ixalan, what i think makes me belive this format is clearly uninteractive is the unholy combo of scamp, heartfire hero, and advantage building one cost instants, pushed into emergency ban territory with leyline

[Legs0fSteel]

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

Originally posted by Legs0fSteel:

Like i said standard has been warped around mono red for years also ''one deck format'' is a bit much Untapped.gg shows it as 17% played with boros aggro at 12% and black discard at 9% ,Momo red dossn't even have the highest win rate
If it really was a one deck format monored would be much higher and the other 2 decks in the topp 3 would be direct counters to it and they aren't.

Also you saying ''i don't like that red can kill turn 2'' and ''it's clearly overtumed'' andd when i give you ways to beat red and give you examples that many more colors have gotten way better tools earlier you go ''this is alot of apologia'' you don't actually want to play you want to whine.

Also yu-gi-oh turn 2? that's funny games end turn one when you either handtrap the other player to death or they make a board with 10 interuptions and you scoop.

untapped.gg statistics are flawed in this as a version of the deck is rackdos aswell there is a boros variant the core, the playstyle, and outcomes of the decks remain the same
do you mean the examples i directly addressed as to why they fall flat
and you cant attack on turn 1 in yugioh silly billy
doesnt it get tiring to defend something clearly wrong

I didn't even say anyything about attacking turn 1 on yu-gi-oh i said games end turn one because a player puts up 10 interrutions which no deck can reasonably beat so they scoop, Or they get stopped by handtraps and now they have no board to interrupt the other player so they scoop because the game is effectively over.

Can't believe it took me this lonhg to realise you're just another troll.

[The_Dybbuk_King]

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

it feels weird to me that a deck can win on turn 2

This doesn't happen

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

idk im just kinda sad the dread deck is completely blown out of standered for how fun it is in draft

Playing Draft decks in a constructed format is a recipe for disaster.

[magnumaniac]

Originally posted by The_Dybbuk_King:

Originally posted by Vermillion Sparrow:

it feels weird to me that a deck can win on turn 2

This doesn't happen

It most certainly does since the arrival of Leyline of Resonance.