Meta reminder (Alchemy after Foundations)

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

Looks like in Alchemy cards Enduring Tenacity and Bloodthirsty Conqueror become popular due to their extreme synergy (pretty much one turn kill if you happen to gain at least 1 health or enemy loses at least 1 health). Cards are also pretty decent on their own (especially the vampire). The deck is more problematic when it also uses white, because it has more answers to answers.

So reminder:
- Green color has the best tools to fight this deck, because it has ridiculously cheap flying and enchantment removals.
- White color should be doing fine due to its versatility (exiling + possibility of targeting non-land permanents).
- Blue color obviously has counterspells. Also don't forget to use Unable to Scream - it's efficient against glimmers (but keep in mind this enchantment can be destroyed).
- Grevious Wound (3BB) doesn't fit many decks, but it is decent counter, because black decks have a hard time getting rid of enchantments (I don't think I've seen players playing Feed the Swarm, and Withering Tournament seems to be almost never used).
- I think red color will struggle the most, because black has a lot of aggro hate, and this particular deck has some life gain included.

So I think the meta has shaken a bit. Green decks finally viable again, red decks on the other hand will probably feel underperforming.

Tips:
- You should finish you opponent before he has 9 lands, because after that he might be able to land all his combo pieces in a single turn, instantly killing you.
- Remember that stolen glimmers return to their owner's side, not their controller's side.
- Heisting is a pretty strong choice against combo decks, because it lets you steal all their combo pieces.
- Cards that let you exile all cards with particular name from opponent's library also are pretty solid answer (e.g. The End, Deadly Cover Up).
- It's a good idea to already prepare for the previously mentioned counters, because they'll probably become more popular soon.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Red has answers related to preventing life gain. Screaming nemesis is a mythic 3 drop that does this

[ice]

bc is a 5 mana card

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:

Red has answers related to preventing life gain. Screaming nemesis is a mythic 3 drop that does this

True, but first it needs to hit the player. It can be blocked by creatures or destroyed/exiled with instant/flash cards. It can work occasionally though. Paying mythic wild cards for a counter against single deck seems expensive. I wonder how much will the meta change in the meantime.

[Winter Wolf]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=673110 <--- needs to be damaged.

[anaris]

is this the "when u gain life opponent loses life" "when opponent loses life you gain life" loop? i think u can get that much cheaper than the vampire, it's an old trick (sanguine bond and exquisite blood)

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=673110 <--- needs to be damaged.

Oh, my bad. I suppose it can work nicely then, all the player has to do is to not let it die before pinging it.

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

Originally posted by anaris:

is this the "when u gain life opponent loses life" "when opponent loses life you gain life" loop? i think u can get that much cheaper than the vampire, it's an old trick (sanguine bond and exquisite blood)

Yep, it's that old loop, but this time it has slightly lower cost (4+5 mana instead of 5+5 mana) and now it also puts bodies on the field (4/3 creature that persists as enchantment after death, and 5/5 flying deathtouch creature). Old combo was better if opponent had no enchantment removals, but I think the new combo is more reliable overall.

[anaris]

i suspect you'll find too much can hit creatures, and the problem with the old combo has more to do with fragility. Traditionally u use Exquisite and Vito these days, too, so it comes for 8 total with a playable vampire already.

[anaris]

basically ur running a three part combo at decent mana costs - so you have to cast not only these two cards but something to start the loop and something to protect against your opponent countering it, removing it, blocking etc. It tends to run in a lifegain shell, which makes it predictable from early game, too.

Creatures makes this easier - fight effects, "destroy target creature" is more common and sometimes cheaper than "destroy nonland perm", stuff like this. You do gain the ability to start with one of the cards, though, you don't need an extra creature to do damage, but does that vampire have evasion or anything? bc chump blocks stop vito, but flying deathtouch is a lot harder to block

[anaris]

green can hit flying or enchantment with spells and has regular cheap common "target creature fights another creature" applied to big bodies, those will hurt the vampire but at a cost (u don't wanna ghalta someone's deathtouch bc it works in fight effects too, so u need the slgihtly rarer "does damage equal to its power").

BU are gonna be fine, because black hits the creatures easily, blue counters the casts easily, and black also has a variety of oblique counters like "Opponents can't gain life". White will have a tougher time but you can exile anything so it's probably fine.

Red though, a lot of red decks will just win before this is a factor, and the ones that don't usually have good flyer access to eat your vampire because they're Dragon decks. Red is for people who like to close games at turn 4 hahah

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

I don't think the combo itself is a problem. The thing about this deck is that this deck is decent even if the combo doesn't land. White-black lifegain decks were popular even before Foundations, and I would say it was one of the most popular decks I've encountered before (I think only aggro were more popular). When Foundations was released, aggro decks become significantly weaker, and lifegain decks got a card that occasionally just wins their game by being played. This is why lifegain decks are so popular (I think it's the most popular deck I've encountered right now, but let's be honest, the sample is small).

[anaris]

Are you playing Standard?

Lifegain decks are typically fragile - they require a strong board presence to do a not-very-powerful effect. They're not very successful in higher power formats, but I remember seeing some stuff about them being a problem in Standard at the moment.

The thing about lifegain decks is that board wipes, removal, and any sort of pressure (eg repeated attacks) really badly interfere with the deck, and that means that most of them run with a handful of actual lifegain cards so they can fit in things that have general purpose abilities (eg token generation + "whenever a creature enters, gain life" is a common pairing). This means you need efficient stuff on tempo to counter the lifegain because afterwards they'll still have a bunch of creatures or lockdown/tax enchantments or whatever up, which can be tough to handle in Standard I think (because you don't have access to 350 different two mana "destroy target" spells).

The endgame for lifegain decks tho often crumbles because having 312 life doesn't really matter; a deck that can do twenty damage can often do arbitrarily high amounts of damage. You want to look at two things - ways to keep the opponent from starting an infinite loop or similar wincon, and ways to keep yourself in the game as long as possible. So you take out only the combo pieces and the wincons, and then at the end of it they're left with a hand full of generic stuff that no longer plugs into their lifegain engine (it's common to devote only 10 or so cards to the lifegain stuff), at which point you can swing as many times as you need to in order to win.

The other big vulnerability, and it's a huge one, is alternate wincons. Lifegain + fast tempo is really unusual and quite tough to make work (lifegain innately fights tempo bc it's really hard to gain more than a few life points at once, but you need so many before it actually matters) so anything that wins the game without depleting life totals is incredibly strong. Except Mill, which is usually an even slower deck :p If standard has any "...you win the game" cards, consider them for when you've taken out this loop and the opponent's gameplan is reduced to "have 57 health and hope"

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

Originally posted by Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn:

Originally posted by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ:

Red has answers related to preventing life gain. Screaming nemesis is a mythic 3 drop that does this

True, but first it needs to hit the player. It can be blocked by creatures or destroyed/exiled with instant/flash cards. It can work occasionally though. Paying mythic wild cards for a counter against single deck seems expensive. I wonder how much will the meta change in the meantime.

Actually no, it needs to be damaged for the effect. Attack not necessary. You can damage it yourself with the right cards

[Kolarahidumgarabashtelarimdugarn]

Just to clarify: this I don't struggle against this deck and I have no issues of it. I'm just predicting that in the near future many people will want to cry about this deck, hence why I posted this thread with tips.