historic banned list-

[joesephjOSEPH]

with modern horizons three being so strong in the format i was wondering why they print some of those cards but some here are banned still.
any arguments for wanting any of these off the list?

blood moon, fetches stand out to me right away. Why are those banned?



Historic Banned cards July 2024
Agent of Treachery
Arid Mesa
Blood Moon
Brainstorm
Channel
Commandeer
Counterspell
Dark Ritual
Demonic Tutor
Endurance
Field of the Dead
Flare of Cultivation
Flare of Denial
Flare of Duplication
Flare of Fortitude
Flare of Malice
Force of Vigor
Fury
Grief
Harbinger of the Seas
Intruder Alarm
Land Tax
Lightning Bolt
Mana Drain
Marsh Flats
Memory Lapse
Mishra's Bauble
Misty Rainforest
Natural Order
Necropotence
Nexus of Fate
Oko, Thief of Crowns
Omnath, Locus of Creation
Once Upon a Time
Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
Reanimate
Scalding Tarn
Show and Tell
Sneak Attack
Solitude
Spreading Seas
Subtlety
Swords to Plowshares
Thassa's Oracle
Tibalt's Trickery
Time Warp
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
Veil of Summer
Verdant Catacombs
Wilderness Reclamation
Winota, Joiner of Forces
Winter Moon

[Thot Monitor]

Blood moon is ridiculously strong considering it effectively neuters any land that isn't basic. Now with modern horizons I'd imagine that proper colorless decks would struggle against it with some cards having a mandatory colorless requirement unless you are at the point you can survive on artifact colorless generation or your deck was full of wastelands which I don't even think I see people play wastelands in mythic historic lmao. It also removes the abilities of any nonbasic land, so you can't even fetch with things like evolving wilds.

[joesephjOSEPH]

blood moon is strong but its a nice card for red in formats like legacy so i was thinking maybe its okay but it can be a single card game win in a lot of matches so i guess i get why its on there.

what about the fetches though?

[joesephjOSEPH]

swords and lightning bolt are banned but then they printed galvanic discharge. i guess the energy requirement classifies it as a different thing

[Tom the Mime Artist]

Originally posted by joesephjOSEPH:

blood moon is strong but its a nice card for red in formats like legacy so i was thinking maybe its okay but it can be a single card game win in a lot of matches so i guess i get why its on there.

what about the fetches though?

The fetch lands make it far too easy to make 4-5 colour decks with little to no deckbuilding or consistency cost. They're banned in historic for the same reason they're banned in pioneer. For lightning bolt v galvanic discharge, discharge can't go face. It might be okay but we just got away from Izzet wizards being top of the historic meta and this would be a clear boost.

Most of the rest are pretty obvious based on power level, bans in paper formats like modern and Wizards wanting to keep pitch spells and mass land hate out of historic and pioneer.

A couple of them have alchemy modifications/variations that are legal in historic where the change is enough to make them fine, like Omnath and Winota. Historic would probably be fine now with the original Omnath, probably not with the original Winota.

Unbans are pretty rare as a general rule though because cards were originally banned for a reason and an unban rarely makes a format better. You need to both be very confident that it won't break the format again but for the format to improve and for it to be worth unbanning, it would also need to be playable enough to make a difference, which is a very small window where an unban is worth the risk.

[joesephjOSEPH]

i feel like galvanic discharge is in the two most consistent decks- blue red wizards and red white energy feels strong but i see your points.
fetch to shock is a heavy cost in such a fast format. thats the cost/ downside. but the reasoning you gave makes sense.

[joesephjOSEPH]

spreading seas seems less oppressive/ instant game win compared to something like blood moon. why is this card banned?

I wasn't playing when Once Upon a Time was legal that much. was ever deck using this card? same for Mishra's Bauble

memory lapse / counterspell- do these give blue white control decks that much of an edge over where they are at now?

commandeer- this seems like a nice way to counter act a cheese combo or something like this. it has a heavy cost if played with or without mana. what broke this card?

tibalt's trickery - this looks like a fun card for red to have some interaction with combo and control was this op before its ban?

[Winter Wolf]

It irks me that so many cards are Timeless Only. I've got a dozen fetchlands plus like 3 winter moons (because random) and I want to use them for the most part I have to play Timeless. Assuming I *don't* want to play timeless, then I received a whole lot of rares that I can't use, instead of useful ones or wild cards. That feels bad man. (I do occasionally play Timeless but because it is the Eff and Eff format I don't find it much fun win or loss. It is a bad version of vintage.

That said, there are some cards that should never be in Historic.

[ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ]

It's because they aren't banned in timeless

[ZAP]

Most of those are available in Brawl. I run necro, ritual, land tax, swords, marsh flats in majority of decks.

[Lexi]

Originally posted by joesephjOSEPH:

with modern horizons three being so strong in the format i was wondering why they print some of those cards but some here are banned still.
any arguments for wanting any of these off the list?

blood moon, fetches stand out to me right away. Why are those banned?



Historic Banned cards July 2024
Agent of Treachery
Arid Mesa
Blood Moon
Brainstorm
Channel
Commandeer
Counterspell
Dark Ritual
Demonic Tutor
Endurance
Field of the Dead
Flare of Cultivation
Flare of Denial
Flare of Duplication
Flare of Fortitude
Flare of Malice
Force of Vigor
Fury
Grief
Harbinger of the Seas
Intruder Alarm
Land Tax
Lightning Bolt
Mana Drain
Marsh Flats
Memory Lapse
Mishra's Bauble
Misty Rainforest
Natural Order
Necropotence
Nexus of Fate
Oko, Thief of Crowns
Omnath, Locus of Creation
Once Upon a Time
Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
Reanimate
Scalding Tarn
Show and Tell
Sneak Attack
Solitude
Spreading Seas
Subtlety
Swords to Plowshares
Thassa's Oracle
Tibalt's Trickery
Time Warp
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
Veil of Summer
Verdant Catacombs
Wilderness Reclamation
Winota, Joiner of Forces
Winter Moon

Fetches are the strongest land cycle in the game, even being stronger than original dual lands. Without fetches its not really fair to try to play around blood moon or harbringer. You need both to balance out the other.