LOTR

[mercilessGeneral]

Sooo! Was just in a match, and my opponent was using the BS LOTR deck. He had 14 LP i had 8. Then on his next turn it said i was defeated and lost. So my question is what card in those decks can just defeat you while having life points still? Or did he cheat somehow?

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di mercilessGeneral:

Messaggio originale di Winter Wolf:

'The Ring Tempts' you is a mechanic. An unfortunately named one for sure. Imho LOTR would have been tons better without it. It works nicely in limited environments but can be either totally busted or just horrible in constructed with little in between. I believe for the most part it leans to the "why is this even in my deck" section of the game rather than "oh no my opponent just stole a game they had no right winning!" section.

But those times when a mechanic unintuitively gets you out of the blue, feels bad. Sorry it happened to you. Take some solace in the fact that it is probably the one time your opponent got it to work.

What? Dude they draw a card and you automatically lose. If you need a LOTR deck then you have zero skill. Its very simple. LOTR had a card that if you draw it out of your deck your opponent automatically loses. Weak cheap and zero skill.

Not at all true, if you're talking about frodo.

For one thing, the ring needs to tempt a bunch of times before that, it needs to be played and then attack (so 2 turns already) and it needs to be leveled up, which may take several turns depending on the situation, and has no defense to just being killed.

Like you can literally just block it, even assuming you can't kill it with a spell, just block it with a token or something.

It's very weak and only wins if someone is unprepared for it or didn't read the card text, or incredibly unlucky enough to have no way of removing it. Once you've seen it once, it will never win a game against you lol.

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di Malvastor:

Messaggio originale di Black Mirror:

Whole game is just like that, even without the crappy triggers that instantly end the game. You only win when your enemy gets bad draw or is mana screwed. Its just like a coin toss with extra steps.

I usually win when my deck's system comes together and I fill the battlefield with a winning combination, but maybe that's just me.

@OP:

This is why reading your opponent's cards is important. Frodo + Ring tempt is an obnoxious win condition but it's a clearly labeled and foreseeable one.

Doesn't at all compare to, say, Rakdos joins up, for example, like even if you see that one coming there's a very narrow window of opportunity to stop it and it's much faster of a win condition.

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di mwesthoff:

Here is a novel idea. Why don't you start playing standard instead of fooling around with the fake alchemy sets?

Standard sucks, i don't know why people say it's so great, there is literally a consistent turn 4 win infinite combo rn among many others and aggro red got an even bigger buff plus you can't use the LOTR cards with Standard.

Actually, scratch that, they both suck, and they suck for basically the same reasons, just different cards.

[Black Mirror]

Messaggio originale di Malvastor:

Messaggio originale di Black Mirror:

Whole game is just like that, even without the crappy triggers that instantly end the game. You only win when your enemy gets bad draw or is mana screwed. Its just like a coin toss with extra steps.

I usually win when my deck's system comes together and I fill the battlefield with a winning combination, but maybe that's just me.

@OP:

This is why reading your opponent's cards is important. Frodo + Ring tempt is an obnoxious win condition but it's a clearly labeled and foreseeable one.

And you fill the battlefield cause your opponent has bad draw and/or was mana screwed/flooded. Usually when you want to play some creatures they get instantly removed or removed on the next turn. Seems like every deck is running like 12 removal spells and 10 board wipes.

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di Black Mirror:

Messaggio originale di Malvastor:

I usually win when my deck's system comes together and I fill the battlefield with a winning combination, but maybe that's just me.

@OP:

This is why reading your opponent's cards is important. Frodo + Ring tempt is an obnoxious win condition but it's a clearly labeled and foreseeable one.

And you fill the battlefield cause your opponent has bad draw and/or was mana screwed/flooded. Usually when you want to play some creatures they get instantly removed or removed on the next turn. Seems like every deck is running like 12 removal spells and 10 board wipes.

That's because they are far far cheaper than every creature that has an affect you want to keep, and not just cannon fodder.

[mercilessGeneral]

Messaggio originale di mwesthoff:

Here is a novel idea. Why don't you start playing standard instead of fooling around with the fake alchemy sets?

There are cards i like in Alchemy.

[Malvastor]

Messaggio originale di Black Mirror:

Messaggio originale di Malvastor:

I usually win when my deck's system comes together and I fill the battlefield with a winning combination, but maybe that's just me.

@OP:

This is why reading your opponent's cards is important. Frodo + Ring tempt is an obnoxious win condition but it's a clearly labeled and foreseeable one.

And you fill the battlefield cause your opponent has bad draw and/or was mana screwed/flooded. Usually when you want to play some creatures they get instantly removed or removed on the next turn. Seems like every deck is running like 12 removal spells and 10 board wipes.

I fill the battlefield with a deck that lets me:

* Put out more stuff than the opponent can feasibly remove

* Protect my stuff from being removed

* Return the stuff that gets removed to the field

[Ripshot Blue]

There's afew cards with "your opponents lose the game".
combat damage at temptation 4, you lose. tap 15 permanents, you lose. Get 1000 counters, you lose. Dont control a legendary, you lose. 15 artifacts in grave, you lose. ten counters + combat damage, you lose. 15 life more then starting amount, you lose.

Then you also got Poison & Mill as win conditions aswell.

[ChaffyExpert]

There are also cards that are like "you can't lose the game" and stuff, although it's mostly Historic that has that nonsense.

But by comparison to, say, having a creature that says "you can't lose the game" and plopping hexproof and indestructible on it (so the only way to remove would be with an "exile everything" board wipe or getting rid of the equipment or whatever is giving it those affects.... frodo is super small fry by comparison to that.

like, if you have an issue removing a little hobbit with small stats, that takes several turns plus leveling which requires like 5 mana, to get to it's win condition, AND it has to deal COMBAT damage so you literally have several turns to prepare once it's already on the field, and you can block it.... then you definitely will never win against the weirder and much more powerful combo decks.

Like if you think that's bad, just wait untill you learn about the Rakdos Joins Up infinite combo in STANDARD right now, much less all the instant-win combos in Historic.
This combo instant-wins the game, and literally can only be stopped by having an instant-kill card and the mana to use it, or graveyard exile card, and can reliably win by around turn 4.

People always complain about Alchemy and the LOTR cards, but there is some way more ridiculous BS in Standard, much less historic or timeless, that is far stronger than ANYTHING people complain about in the LOTR sets.

Whatever card you think is OP in the LOTR sets, i gurantee you there is an equivalent effect card in STANDARD, or equivalent strategy, that is much better or more powerful. It's called power creep.

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di mercilessGeneral:

Messaggio originale di mwesthoff:

Here is a novel idea. Why don't you start playing standard instead of fooling around with the fake alchemy sets?

There are cards i like in Alchemy.

This person acts like Standard isn't much worse in it's own ways, like the Rakdos Joins up inf combo is currently in Standard. The whole "alchemy sucks" is kind of stupid because standard is just as bad, just in a slightly different way.

[Taweret]

Messaggio originale di mercilessGeneral:

Messaggio originale di Trevor Lahey:

One of the Frodo's makes your opponent lose the game if the ring tempts you like 4 times.

Thats some BS. Im sorry but thats crap!

it's not even good my friend, wait and see timeless second sun sheningans.
there are also that nine lives combo decks that make you unkillable.

[Taweret]

Messaggio originale di ChaffyExpert:

Messaggio originale di mercilessGeneral:

There are cards i like in Alchemy.

This person acts like Standard isn't much worse in it's own ways, like the Rakdos Joins up inf combo is currently in Standard. The whole "alchemy sucks" is kind of stupid because standard is just as bad, just in a slightly different way.

i never found alchemy cards more broken than generic mtg cards. plus stuff that is broken in alchemy is nerfed quickly: see crucias you cant even play him with unchanged version in timeless which sucks imo.

[mwesthoff]

Messaggio originale di ChaffyExpert:

Messaggio originale di mercilessGeneral:

There are cards i like in Alchemy.

This person acts like Standard isn't much worse in it's own ways, like the Rakdos Joins up inf combo is currently in Standard. The whole "alchemy sucks" is kind of stupid because standard is just as bad, just in a slightly different way.

Since when has a five drop from a player's hand been good in standard? This is 2024. Time to get back to the reality that 4 drops are now 5 drops.... lol

[DontMisunderstand]

Messaggio originale di mwesthoff:

Messaggio originale di ChaffyExpert:

This person acts like Standard isn't much worse in it's own ways, like the Rakdos Joins up inf combo is currently in Standard. The whole "alchemy sucks" is kind of stupid because standard is just as bad, just in a slightly different way.

Since when has a five drop from a player's hand been good in standard? This is 2024. Time to get back to the reality that 4 drops are now 5 drops.... lol

Most playable cards are 3+ mana. Almost all 4+ mana cards are good. The 1 and 2 mana spells we'd consider actually good tend to be massive outliers in game balance that'd still see play at 4 mana.

That said... I can't speak to what is and isn't viable in Standard. I don't play garbage game modes.

[DontMisunderstand]

Messaggio originale di Taweret:

Messaggio originale di mercilessGeneral:

Thats some BS. Im sorry but thats crap!

it's not even good my friend, wait and see timeless second sun sheningans.
there are also that nine lives combo decks that make you unkillable.

Oh hey I've seen both of those decks. Never managed to lose to them because how would you even manage a feat like that, but I've definitely seen them. To be fair though, they tend to be the same deck. No point running white anti-death if you don't include a win condition, and Approach of the Second Sun is one of the better alternate win conditions for a deck whose primary game plan simply to stay alive.