countering the indestructible forum thread

[Argstein]

is countering an indestructible creature fair? or should indestructible apply to counterspells as well?

[magnumaniac]

Of course it is fair - it is only a spell, not a creature, until it enters the battlefield.

If it bothers you that much just play 4 Cavern of Souls.

[ChaffyExpert]

Yeah they should be immune to exile too, so it's an instant win you can't get rid of. Because that makes so much sense.

[Argstein]

HA
GAUDY

[BEEN]

Originally posted by AY YO:

is it fair? or should indestructible apply to counterspells as well?

No because the spell is not indestructible, the creature is. Each card is a spell you cast via mana to create a non land permanent or a magic spell (ie sorcery or instant). That’s why non haste creatures have summoning sickness. You used a spell to summon them. Thus, to counter a spell, you are countering the spell that casts a creature in this case.

[DontMisunderstand]

"Cannot be countered" is a different ability.

[Argstein]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

"Cannot be countered" is a different ability.

yea but let's make it default for "indestructible" and "cannot be countered" to pair up on the same cards

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by AY YO:

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

"Cannot be countered" is a different ability.

yea but let's make it default for "indestructible" and "cannot be countered" to pair up on the same cards

I really can't fathom why you would want that. Indestructible takes one major method for removing a creature off the table. There's no reason it should automatically remove a second major removal method for free.

[Winter Wolf]

Thrun is your troll.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

Thrun is your troll.

God I hate seeing that thing come out.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by AY YO:

yea but let's make it default for "indestructible" and "cannot be countered" to pair up on the same cards

I really can't fathom why you would want that. Indestructible takes one major method for removing a creature off the table. There's no reason it should automatically remove a second major removal method for free.

I'd argue it takes two of the main methods off the table already, but that makes it even more unreasonable to staple a third on top of that.

[Argstein]

i vote folks should take indestructible creatures seriously

there's a slew of "exile target permanent" and force sacrifice cards out there so if countering was off the table they'd still be easy enough to deal with

[Berserkr]

You can kill indestructible creatures with minus/minus temporary effects as well

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by Malvastor:

I really can't fathom why you would want that. Indestructible takes one major method for removing a creature off the table. There's no reason it should automatically remove a second major removal method for free.

I'd argue it takes two of the main methods off the table already, but that makes it even more unreasonable to staple a third on top of that.

Fair point, yeah.

Originally posted by AY YO:

i vote folks should take indestructible creatures seriously

there's a slew of "exile target permanent" and force sacrifice cards out there so if countering was off the table they'd still be easy enough to deal with

People take indestructible as seriously as it warrants (maybe moreso in some cases). I really don't see a good reason to give it a major buff just for the sake of it being stronger.

[Argstein]

i guess squee the immortal is the only true indestructible creature

[ChaffyExpert]

I mean, if you really want to make it not countered, you could play Cavern of Souls.

but then it can still be removed via exile, -1-1 counters, and "sacrifice creature"

You know, use actual strategy.

I will say though that hexproof should apply to board wipes and "sacrifice creature" too, it makes no sense that if someone has, say, Sheoldred's Edict or whatever it's called, that is basically un-counter able. Like you literally can't counter it with anything except blue "counter spell" cards, which is dumb. Every card should have some counter to it, but black has so many things that you can't counter at all without being blue.