Magic: The Gathering Arena

Magic: The Gathering Arena

WhiskerKing Jun 22, 2024 @ 9:49am
2
Did they ever fix the Rigged shuffler?
I'm curious if they ever fixed it or it still completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥?
Last edited by WhiskerKing; Jun 22, 2024 @ 9:53am
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Showing 1-15 of 56 comments
Fair always means forced 50 zzzzzzz

"MTG ARENA MATCHMAKING AND YOU
Card art for Invasion of Regatha showing combatants hurling fire against Phyrexians
A couple of weeks ago we shipped a bug on MTG Arena that allowed players to reverse engineer some of the logic behind our matchmaking. While there is no security risk in this bug, it did create some conversation on the topic, so we wanted to take a minute to discuss what our goals are with matchmaking and what players can expect moving forward.

Our vision for MTG Arena is "Fast, fun Magic for everyone, anywhere." Applying this to matchmaking in unranked modes, our goal is to let players build whatever decks that interest them and then provide as fair a match as possible. This means we're looking to pair high-power decks against each other so those players can have the epic battles they're looking for. Meanwhile, players who are building for fun, thematic matches are more likely to pair against others who are doing the same.

With a game as complex as Magic, however, no system will perfectly account for all the strategies, variables, and deck-building options available to players, let alone the myriad motivations those players have. In addition, we must make compromises between matchmaking precision and how long it takes players to find a match.

So, let's discuss how we manage this (after a couple of caveats) …

First, the matchmaking we're discussing today only applies to the Best-of-One play queues (and occasional pass events, like Midweek Magic, where you get to play for a timed duration instead of a set number of matches), and does not apply to Ranked play, Best-of-Three play, premier events, or events that have win/loss targets.

Second, we're not going to share specific matchmaking details. While we know some players won't like this choice, it helps us achieve our goal of fair matchmaking. When players have full transparency on how the system works, it is easier for certain players to exploit this information to create imbalanced match-ups. When this happens, predictably, more players adopt this strategy over time for fear of being disadvantaged, which means that not only are they creating even more imbalanced matches, they may not even be playing decks that they think are fun or interesting.

Now on to the discussion.

For Brawl (and Standard Brawl), the system looks at both your Commander and your deck, roughly evaluates the combined power level, with an emphasis on the Commander, and then tries to match you against decks of similar power level. If it is taking too long to find a good match, the system periodically increases the acceptable power level discrepancies until you are paired. As a rule of thumb, we're hoping players are never waiting more than a minute or two for a match. For non-Brawl matches, the process is the same, but without the commander.

There are two key things to point out here. First, new cards will need play data before they are integrated into the power calculation, so they are the most likely to change between evaluations. Second, when making changes, we're going to prioritize statistical outliers or the most popular cards for adjustment. Granularly managing thousands of cards is unlikely to be the best use of our team resources, so we're going to focus on the most important areas first.

Beyond the relative power of the commander and the cards in a player's deck, we incorporate player skill as part of our matchmaking in further service to finding fun and compelling matches for players. While it can be fun to win convincingly, we don't want to regularly pit newer players who are learning the ropes against seasoned veterans with advanced skillsets and create situations where these outcomes are much more likely. Combining deck power and skill helps prevent that, while still allowing for these players to occasionally battle.

Moving forward, you can expect a few things. First, we're going to fix the issue that gave players too much information. This will happen soon. Alongside that change, or shortly thereafter, we'll make changes to our power ratings based on play patterns over the past few weeks. Again, our goal is for players to have fun, engaging matches that appropriately test their skill level.

Beyond this, we'll continue to explore how we manage the power level portion of matchmaking in a sustainably responsive manner, where changes are regularly accounting for shifts in the metagame but don't impact our ability to run other parts of the game. We're not going to provide explicit timelines or windows in which this will happen, because doing so creates windows of opportunity for players to try and circumvent the system.

We've seen strong growth in Brawl over the last year, and we're excited to find ways to better support Brawl players. While we know it is imperfect, using deck power matchmaking has been a cornerstone of supporting engaging games of Magic, and we'll continue explore ways to make it even better."
Last edited by ʍolɟ ǝɥʇ ǝsɹǝʌǝɹ; Jun 22, 2024 @ 11:16am
ChaffyExpert Jun 22, 2024 @ 2:09pm 
Originally posted by Serkian:
no, dont waste ur time in this ♥♥♥♥
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/mtg-arena-announcements-june-3-2024

That has nothing to do with the shuffler that's about matchmaking.
Ha 何豪源 Jun 23, 2024 @ 8:32am 
they admitted that they rig the matchmaking, one day they will admit the shuffler too
ChaffyExpert Jun 23, 2024 @ 10:20am 
Originally posted by Ha 何豪源:
they admitted that they rig the matchmaking, one day they will admit the shuffler too
No they didn't lol. The matchmaking isn't rigged, rigging isn't when a matchmaker is a matchmaker.
Last edited by ChaffyExpert; Jun 23, 2024 @ 10:22am
Ha 何豪源 Jun 23, 2024 @ 11:28am 
Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:
Originally posted by Ha 何豪源:
they admitted that they rig the matchmaking, one day they will admit the shuffler too
No they didn't lol. The matchmaking isn't rigged, rigging isn't when a matchmaker is a matchmaker.

i explained it you at the other topic, when bronze players can meet mythics, it has nothing to do with matchmaking and they even wrote that they wont change that. just because in your world that matchup doesnt exists, it does for others.

write the same sentence in other games, they will laugh at you.
ChaffyExpert Jun 23, 2024 @ 12:09pm 
Originally posted by Ha 何豪源:
Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:
No they didn't lol. The matchmaking isn't rigged, rigging isn't when a matchmaker is a matchmaker.

i explained it you at the other topic, when bronze players can meet mythics, it has nothing to do with matchmaking and they even wrote that they wont change that. just because in your world that matchup doesnt exists, it does for others.

write the same sentence in other games, they will laugh at you.

And as i said there, i've never seen that, if that happens, it's because there isn't many people playing and it prioritizes speedy matches, AND if having a matchmaker at all is "rigged" then wouldn't bronze vs mythic happen LESS in order to look less rigged, and if there was no matchmaker, there would be matches like that ALL the time because it's random with no safeguards.

Bronze meeting mythic players doesn't mean it's rigged inherently, it's an unfair match up, but to be rigged, it would have to do that *on purpose* repeatedly. If this supposed matchup exists.

As it is, the matchmaker actively tries to PREVENT this and you say it's rigged because of the rare situation in which it does happen, even though the alternative is it happens MORE because it's random, or you wait HOURS because of the matchmaker not finding a suitable match up.
Last edited by ChaffyExpert; Jun 23, 2024 @ 12:11pm
Quazy Jun 23, 2024 @ 2:16pm 
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271164167

no they did not. they will never fix it cause that means admitting its broken
magnumaniac Jun 23, 2024 @ 6:52pm 
Not sure where you are getting your numbers from (I guess just making them up), but the actual probability of getting 6 specific cards out of 9 drawn, when only 6 exist in a deck of 60 cards is 0.000168% - so will happen roughly once every 600000 games.

Hardly a "zero" probability.

Also seems very strange that you would only run 3 of either card and not a full playset.
Last edited by magnumaniac; Jun 23, 2024 @ 6:55pm
Winter Wolf Jun 23, 2024 @ 8:45pm 
The article is an interesting set of revelations. I think they made a good case for their system. MM does not seem unfairly rigged to me. And ofc no one has managed to show proof of the shuffler shenanigans being purported.

So it seems clear the only rigging here is in the main sail and up the mast.
Ha 何豪源 Jun 24, 2024 @ 4:52am 
its funny that no one critizites that they were hiding a bug / enabled something hidden without sharing it to the public. i really dislike their *********** behavior even more, they only acted because innocent people got attacked for speculating this

"A couple of weeks ago we shipped a bug on MTG Arena that allowed players to reverse engineer some of the logic behind our matchmaking. While there is no security risk in this bug, it did create some conversation on the topic, ..."

so people were speculating that they were rigging the odds even more (as i mentioned above), and everyone who mentioned that were attacked for actually writing the truth afterwards. now they even admitted it and wont back from it, if you keep reading the whole text afterwards. seems they have a bit of a heart left, after seeing innocent people (who wrote the truth) got attacked by their mindless fans from reddit

@chaffyexpert you can sugarcoat their decision (from speedy matchups to make-a-wish for mythic players and their freaks so they wont keep losing nonstop and have an easier time against a new player) however you want. fact is that you as new player or bronze CAN match against mythics (on reddit there are enough screenshots) and the game modes here are not based on elo (else i wouldnt care either), but based on win/loses - draft, standard, events etc.

it is rigged, because it happens - tell me another game where this is common
Last edited by Ha 何豪源; Jun 24, 2024 @ 4:56am
sdev09 Jun 24, 2024 @ 10:19am 
there is no matchmaker, there is a win provider algorithm which bores one player in favor of the other. they could skip the process and just provide everyone with a win after two games.

or get rid of win conditions, if they really want to make the game fun for everyone like they say.
Last edited by sdev09; Jun 24, 2024 @ 10:19am
Ahilles Sep 25, 2024 @ 5:24pm 
No they not fixing anything. i am tired of this stuff, i can drop video if anyone intersted what happens when you win alot, game will literaly pick you up and drop you to the trash bin untill you lose enough
Last edited by Ahilles; Sep 25, 2024 @ 5:25pm
BEEN Sep 25, 2024 @ 5:43pm 
Originally posted by Ahilles:
No they not fixing anything. i am tired of this stuff, i can drop video if anyone intersted what happens when you win alot, game will literaly pick you up and drop you to the trash bin untill you lose enough
It’s usually how casinos work
Mattou Sep 26, 2024 @ 3:41am 
Answer is really simple for dev... just let players CHOOSE how they want to play => matchmarking (everybody knows that it is bad) OR dedicated public lobbies !
Last edited by Mattou; Sep 26, 2024 @ 3:41am
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Date Posted: Jun 22, 2024 @ 9:49am
Posts: 56