Playing without a brain

[D.M]

Are the cards that remain increasingly unbalanced and causing automatic victory? There are cards now that basically win the game alone, you don't need strategy, intelligence or brains, it's something like:

Cost:0 mana,
When this card enters the field: you automatically win the world championship, 1 million dollars are deposited in your account, you kill the opponent's family and the opponent and gains diplomatic immunity.

Obviously this is a joke, but I hope you understand the general idea. Where is this strategy? Theoretically, it is much more satisfying to win knowing that you 'outplayed' the other guy; Or is it enough to just automatically win because an extremely strong card?

[Winter Wolf]

The gates are wide open in magic, the gatekeepers are left with little to do but complain about how easy the game has become and tell war stories about the bad old days of walking to Teferi's Academy for Wayward Delinquents (TAWDs) with Fyndhorn Elder across snow-covered swamps uphill. Both ways. Kids these days have it easy! Turn 0, press easy button. turn 1, let easy button play winning combo and win.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Everyone has access to the same pool of cards. If there are cards that you find to be extremely powerful/effective, use them.

[D.M]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

The gates are wide open in magic, the gatekeepers are left with little to do but complain about how easy the game has become and tell war stories about the bad old days of walking to Teferi's Academy for Wayward Delinquents (TAWDs) with Fyndhorn Elder across snow-covered swamps uphill. Both ways. Kids these days have it easy! Turn 0, press easy button. turn 1, let easy button play winning combo and win.

True! You've summed it all up.

[D.M]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Everyone has access to the same pool of cards. If there are cards that you find to be extremely powerful/effective, use them.

Thank you for the cooperation, your comment is very important.

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Everyone has access to the same pool of cards. If there are cards that you find to be extremely powerful/effective, use them.

Not everyone wants to just play the same sheoldred, obliterator, nazgul, "make you sacrifice and discard everything" bull.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Everyone has access to the same pool of cards. If there are cards that you find to be extremely powerful/effective, use them.

Not everyone wants to just play the same sheoldred, obliterator, nazgul, "make you sacrifice and discard everything" bull.

And nobody is forcing you to. If you choose to play the game without using the best available cards, that's on you...
Yet again it comes down to the same conversation of "playing to win vs. playing for fun". If you find it more fun to play the game using suboptimal cards, you are free to do so, but you should not get upset when you get matched against players who are playing to win and will use the best cards available to do so regardless of how subjectively fun they are to play.

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

Not everyone wants to just play the same sheoldred, obliterator, nazgul, "make you sacrifice and discard everything" bull.

And nobody is forcing you to. If you choose to play the game without using the best available cards, that's on you...
Yet again it comes down to the same conversation of "playing to win vs. playing for fun". If you find it more fun to play the game using suboptimal cards, you are free to do so, but you should not get upset when you get matched against players who are playing to win and will use the best cards available to do so regardless of how subjectively fun they are to play.

No it's not lol any game that only has one way of playing, in order to win, because of OP ♥♥♥♥ it's deeply flawed. It's not about using optimal cards or not, it's about the fact that MTG went off the rails giving ridiculous ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to black for some reason.

Not to mention, i can't force them to not play it, and playing against it is just as not fun as playing with it.... I don't see why the poor balance decisions should ruin the game for everyone that doesn't just look for the cheesiest decks like aggro red.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

any game that only has one way of playing, in order to win,

If you truly believe there is only one viable build for winning games, then you are terrible at this game. And I truly do not mean that as an insult, but just to point out that there is no possible way you could be decent at this game and simultaneously hold that belief. It's undeniably false, look at the results of any recent tournament.

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

It's not about using optimal cards or not, it's about the fact that MTG went off the rails giving ridiculous ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to black for some reason.

"Scissors is way too OP and needs to be removed from the game" ~paper
"Rock is way yoo OP and needs to be removed form the game" ~scissors

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

Not to mention, i can't force them to not play it

Nor should you be able to. Every card in this game can be dealt with. If there is a specific card/s that is consistently giving you problems, figure out how to deal with it.

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

and playing against it is just as not fun as playing with it.... I don't see why the poor balance decisions should ruin the game for everyone that doesn't just look for the cheesiest decks like aggro red.

Again... playing to win vs. playing for fun. Clearly you care more about playing nuanced games with subjectively fun mechanics than you care about winning. That's fine, but you should not expect to beat top-tier decks with a sub-optimal build.

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

any game that only has one way of playing, in order to win,

If you truly believe there is only one viable build for winning games, then you are terrible at this game. And I truly do not mean that as an insult, but just to point out that there is no possible way you could be decent at this game and simultaneously hold that belief. It's undeniably false, look at the results of any recent tournament.

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

It's not about using optimal cards or not, it's about the fact that MTG went off the rails giving ridiculous ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to black for some reason.

"Scissors is way too OP and needs to be removed from the game" ~paper
"Rock is way yoo OP and needs to be removed form the game" ~scissors

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

Not to mention, i can't force them to not play it

Nor should you be able to. Every card in this game can be dealt with. If there is a specific card/s that is consistently giving you problems, figure out how to deal with it.

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

and playing against it is just as not fun as playing with it.... I don't see why the poor balance decisions should ruin the game for everyone that doesn't just look for the cheesiest decks like aggro red.

Again... playing to win vs. playing for fun. Clearly you care more about playing nuanced games with subjectively fun mechanics than you care about winning. That's fine, but you should not expect to beat top-tier decks with a sub-optimal build.

Most colors don't have many different cards that single handedly win the game even without setup, the way obliterator and Sheoldred do unless you get lucky enough to have an exile card that you don't use or hasn't been forcibly discarded, or 9 nazgul, which to be honest i don't mind because it's cool and LOTR and just gets counters alot, but it's still pretty OP tbh.

I care about winning, i have a good deck build, most of the time, hell even against blue control decks, it can be fun.

There is no fun with mono-black, if i was playing the non-ranked version, i would just concede as soon as i saw it was this BS because it's just not fun.

I don't see why games should be decided by who has the OP card and who plays it first, instead of at least being based on, you know, a strategy, like a combo of cards, not just "I play Sheoldred.. so i win now."

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

Most colors don't have many different cards that single handedly win the game even without setup, the way obliterator and Sheoldred do unless you get lucky enough to have an exile card that you don't use or hasn't been forcibly discarded, or 9 nazgul, which to be honest i don't mind because it's cool and LOTR and just gets counters alot, but it's still pretty OP tbh.

I care about winning, i have a good deck build, most of the time, hell even against blue control decks, it can be fun.

There is no fun with mono-black, if i was playing the non-ranked version, i would just concede as soon as i saw it was this BS because it's just not fun.

I don't see why games should be decided by who has the OP card and who plays it first, instead of at least being based on, you know, a strategy, like a combo of cards, not just "I play Sheoldred.. so i win now."

Everything you're saying is based on the assumption that these cards instantly win the game, which is not true. You mention things like Sheodred: The Apocalypse and Phyrexian Obliterator... those are both dealt with very easily. You may not find removal to be fun, but if you want to win you're going to need to have some in your deck.

Your hatred towards mono-black is not shared by everyone, and I'd say you're likely in the minority. I see threads all the time complaining about red aggro and blue control, there was even one recently about mono white being the most OP color...

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Originally posted by ChaffyExpert:

Most colors don't have many different cards that single handedly win the game even without setup, the way obliterator and Sheoldred do unless you get lucky enough to have an exile card that you don't use or hasn't been forcibly discarded, or 9 nazgul, which to be honest i don't mind because it's cool and LOTR and just gets counters alot, but it's still pretty OP tbh.

I care about winning, i have a good deck build, most of the time, hell even against blue control decks, it can be fun.

There is no fun with mono-black, if i was playing the non-ranked version, i would just concede as soon as i saw it was this BS because it's just not fun.

I don't see why games should be decided by who has the OP card and who plays it first, instead of at least being based on, you know, a strategy, like a combo of cards, not just "I play Sheoldred.. so i win now."

Everything you're saying is based on the assumption that these cards instantly win the game, which is not true. You mention things like Sheodred: The Apocalypse and Phyrexian Obliterator... those are both dealt with very easily. You may not find removal to be fun, but if you want to win you're going to need to have some in your deck.

Your hatred towards mono-black is not shared by everyone, and I'd say you're likely in the minority. I see threads all the time complaining about red aggro and blue control, there was even one recently about mono white being the most OP color...

They do, i mean, sure, if you have removal (which i do) you can deal with it, however they also make you discard cards. and sacrifice cards. If you happen to not draw the removal, then it is an instant win, and i don't think that you can say it's not OP because it *can* be beaten with like one card.

I mean red aggro can be annoying but if you derail their plans at all they run out of cards and are easily beaten.

Blue you just need to pay attention to their mana, their weakness, and make them waste spells.

Only Mono-black, or black focused anyways decks makes me want to concede as soon as they play a single spell just because i don't want to deal with this bs.

[Bizeboy]

Toxic for sure

[the.sightless.jayfeather]

I've been playing off and on since all the way back in the original Theros block and I gotta say: I don't think there really is any cards that are just that strong that them being played at all is impossible to deal with. Difficult to deal with? Sure but they can be interacted with in various ways.

As a resident lover of blue mana, I am happy to counterspell something really strong like - to take an example from someone in this thread - Sheoldred, the Apocalypse or Phyrexian Obliterator. If I can't stop them from hitting the field in the first place? Well, I've already made some mistakes but I ain't out of the game yet, I can use bounce effects or get around them with brute force - every color has creatures after all, blue being good for flying ones gives me an option.

Obliterator is a troublesome card at first but has honestly become more of an amusing thing to see than anything else. Strong no doubt but not the powerhouse you might think since it has no protection and only dissuades damage based removal. If you find yourself running into it a lot, running "destroy target creature" cards is probably your first move. If you're seeing them give it hexproof then try board wipes. If you're seeing them give it indestructible then try running exile or -x/-x effects since those both get around it. But let's say you want to turn that card into a boon for you, try running cards that maybe steal it or force it to fight/be damaged by your opponent's creatures - the effect does say that the *controller* is the one that must sacrifice, just make their creatures fight Obliterator.

Maybe instead you have trouble keeping enough cards in hand to deal with these threats, in that case you have some options. Perhaps the most straightforward is just having a lot of card draw, it'd keep your hand full so you don't need to worry about them burning through your hand. If you want to do something they can't interact with then try to use impulse draw instead, they can't make you discard things you're casting from exile! Though maybe that isn't your forte, how about turning that discarding into something they can't stop like flashback spells, unearth creatures, or even madness spells so you can get them cheaper! Punish forced sacrifice by having creatures with powerful death triggers or things that are benefited by your creatures dying through things like burn or drain!

Maybe it's just me but this game is more about how you plan to face your opponents than it is just having "I win" cards. You will always have to sacrifice something for effectiveness, you'll eventually lose matches, and sometimes you'll find out the idea you had makes for a fragile strategy - yet your opponents also find those exact same things just as often. So best to just stand up, dust yourself off, and take what you've learned from those unfavorable matchups into the deck builder and to the next match

[ChaffyExpert]

Originally posted by the.sightless.jayfeather:

I've been playing off and on since all the way back in the original Theros block and I gotta say: I don't think there really is any cards that are just that strong that them being played at all is impossible to deal with. Difficult to deal with? Sure but they can be interacted with in various ways.

As a resident lover of blue mana, I am happy to counterspell something really strong like - to take an example from someone in this thread - Sheoldred, the Apocalypse or Phyrexian Obliterator. If I can't stop them from hitting the field in the first place? Well, I've already made some mistakes but I ain't out of the game yet, I can use bounce effects or get around them with brute force - every color has creatures after all, blue being good for flying ones gives me an option.

Obliterator is a troublesome card at first but has honestly become more of an amusing thing to see than anything else. Strong no doubt but not the powerhouse you might think since it has no protection and only dissuades damage based removal. If you find yourself running into it a lot, running "destroy target creature" cards is probably your first move. If you're seeing them give it hexproof then try board wipes. If you're seeing them give it indestructible then try running exile or -x/-x effects since those both get around it. But let's say you want to turn that card into a boon for you, try running cards that maybe steal it or force it to fight/be damaged by your opponent's creatures - the effect does say that the *controller* is the one that must sacrifice, just make their creatures fight Obliterator.

Maybe instead you have trouble keeping enough cards in hand to deal with these threats, in that case you have some options. Perhaps the most straightforward is just having a lot of card draw, it'd keep your hand full so you don't need to worry about them burning through your hand. If you want to do something they can't interact with then try to use impulse draw instead, they can't make you discard things you're casting from exile! Though maybe that isn't your forte, how about turning that discarding into something they can't stop like flashback spells, unearth creatures, or even madness spells so you can get them cheaper! Punish forced sacrifice by having creatures with powerful death triggers or things that are benefited by your creatures dying through things like burn or drain!

Maybe it's just me but this game is more about how you plan to face your opponents than it is just having "I win" cards. You will always have to sacrifice something for effectiveness, you'll eventually lose matches, and sometimes you'll find out the idea you had makes for a fragile strategy - yet your opponents also find those exact same things just as often. So best to just stand up, dust yourself off, and take what you've learned from those unfavorable matchups into the deck builder and to the next match

Assuming you don't have the right card to deal with it, it single-handedly wins the game. Planning to face opponents is important part of the game, which is why i hate the obliterator for example, because it's just an instant "i win" card.

Also it's more annoying that EVERY deck seems to run obliterator, i don't think the shuffler is rigged, but i'm starting to feel like the Wotc think i kicked their dog or something and keep matching me against this toxic af deck type that is also the direct counter to my specific deck type because it seems like it's all i ever see is the same stupid obliterator sacrifice discard etc. black decks.

Also, you can't just outdraw the cards, because for whatever reason Wotc decided to give black 1 mana or 2 mana cost cards that instant-destory or discard a card, so you run out of cards before you can actually start drawing more. I know this because i have a plethora of different draw-based cards in my deck like Dusk Legion (which requires another card to give it a counter, so it's a little bit of setup), Dawn of a New Age, Palantir etc. (and those last two are NOT AVAILABLE in standard, yet the discards are. In other words, if you want to draw more cards to counter black, Wotc is trying to make that impossible or near impossible, and black also got the most insanely OP cards.

It really feels like Wotc went over the top making specifically black cards OP af.

[BEEN]

The only balance that WotC is concerned about is their ESG score.