Frustration off the scale (Constructed)

[non]

Going up and down on Platinum 1 for hours. 3 times 1 victory away from Diamond, always falling back to the bottom.

What this game REALLY lacks, is the ability to communicate with opponents.

[non]

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

Origineel geplaatst door Berserkr:

Other than bragging rights are the rewards for being in Mythic or Diamond worth all the extra time and play climbing the ladder vs the rewards for Platinum?

I don't think so.
I was just tryin' to say... perhaps the reason that OP can't get past platinum is because that's where they belong.

I´ve started in August and made it to Diamond every month since then.

[non]

Origineel geplaatst door GaviJa:

My go to rule when climbing is if you had a good streak and have more than 2 losses in a row, take a short break.

Wise words. Else you easily exchange the fun part of this game for the frustrating part. Good advice

[non]

Origineel geplaatst door Winter Wolf:

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

I was just tryin' to say... perhaps the reason that OP can't get past platinum is because that's where they belong.

I think this is a somewhat silly idea. Ladder is not designed to test skill but persistence and endurance. That's really the whole point of it. The rewards speak for themselves because people *think* laddering is a skill test when it really isn't. Tournaments are far more so than any kind of laddering. But even if it were an accurate gauge of skill, people streak, and people learn at different rates and some people are held back by the lack of top tier cards (which is where paying to win comes in I suppose though it is strictly unnecessary and fairly meaningless), etc. Sure in a general sense a very good player should easily get to mythic with a minimal collection but that's not realistic for most players.

Pretty much reflects my thoughts. Magic is not chess, where luck is no factor at all.
When you have a streak of 8 times being 2nd (my personal record), for instance, you can only reduce the damage with skill.

[GaviJa]

8 times being second? damn you are lucky. My worst streak is 27

[sobacha]

Value your time.
What's the point of playing games if you are not having fun.

[GarbageCollector]

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

Origineel geplaatst door Winter Wolf:

Ladder is not designed to test skill but persistence and endurance. That's really the whole point of it.

Says who?
I'm failing to find any logic behind your reply. Persistence alone will never bring you to the top, you must have skill. Persistence will get you through the first couple ranks, because you can't be demoted, so it doesn't matter how often you lost. The moment you are able to be demoted for your losses the ranking system becomes very much an indication of skill (and/or deck quality). Players that are better will win more matches and rise to the top ranks, players that aren't as good will lose and only advance to the rank that is representative of their skill.

But you don't. All the way through diamond you get more forward progress for wins than losses thanks to the 2 (I think?) losses you can take at the lowest point of each rank tier before it sends you down to the one before it. If you just make it to Diamond 1, lose 3 times, then win 1, you'll be at Diamond 1 again, not Diamond 2 where you "belong". Also I'm fairly confident you can't demote out of mythic at all?

It's the modern era of video game design. Can't have people getting hardstuck (even if they're bad) or they'll get their feelings hurt and will stop playing. Everyone's gotta be a winner. Even if you play against other players.

[GarbageCollector]

Origineel geplaatst door non:

Pretty much reflects my thoughts. Magic is not chess, where luck is no factor at all.
When you have a streak of 8 times being 2nd (my personal record), for instance, you can only reduce the damage with skill.

It's not even the luck factor. Luck won't play a significant role if you play enough games (chess does have some luck in who goes first, it just doesn't matter because eventually you'll play enough games as white and as black). It's that they literally don't want it to work as a skill-based system. There's 0 reason why 1v1 MtG can't have the exact same formulas for calculating elo as are used in chess. They just opt for a "if you win you progress (sometimes a lot) and if you lose you regress (sometimes). Oh and also we're going to arbitrarily reset people every month." because it makes more winners than losers and encourages you to just grind it out which means more people are active and playing the game.

[GarbageCollector]

tl;dr
It's a fake ranking system. Don't read anything into it for yourself or other people.

[non]

Origineel geplaatst door GarbageCollector:

Origineel geplaatst door non:

Pretty much reflects my thoughts. Magic is not chess, where luck is no factor at all.
When you have a streak of 8 times being 2nd (my personal record), for instance, you can only reduce the damage with skill.

It's not even the luck factor.

Fortunately I could play the last day of season, 2 hours before the end and had a balance of 6 wins vs 1 loss and made it to diamond.
With exactly the same deck. The difference was, that I was very lucky with being 1st on most of these matches.

[Soji]

I dont understand what your 2 points have to do with each other, are you implying when you're close to ranking up you want to be able to communicate as such?

[non]

Origineel geplaatst door Soji:

I dont understand what your 2 points have to do with each other, are you implying when you're close to ranking up you want to be able to communicate as such?

It seems, as if some people understood it as a general "hand it over", while it was that special circumstance of: 20 hours before the end of season and me being 1 win away from ranking up for the 3rd time in 2 1/2 hours of yoyoing. Besides 2 opponents all the others were that low, that it seemed highly unlikely they´d make it to levelling up in the remaining time. So it would have been nice to at least have the option to ask them for the favour. Whether they reply "np, been there myself" or "if I can spoil it for you, all the better" is totally up to them. But as it is, we can´t express anything.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Origineel geplaatst door GarbageCollector:

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

Says who?
I'm failing to find any logic behind your reply. Persistence alone will never bring you to the top, you must have skill. Persistence will get you through the first couple ranks, because you can't be demoted, so it doesn't matter how often you lost. The moment you are able to be demoted for your losses the ranking system becomes very much an indication of skill (and/or deck quality). Players that are better will win more matches and rise to the top ranks, players that aren't as good will lose and only advance to the rank that is representative of their skill.

But you don't. All the way through diamond you get more forward progress for wins than losses thanks to the 2 (I think?) losses you can take at the lowest point of each rank tier before it sends you down to the one before it. If you just make it to Diamond 1, lose 3 times, then win 1, you'll be at Diamond 1 again, not Diamond 2 where you "belong". Also I'm fairly confident you can't demote out of mythic at all?

You seem to be operating under the assumption that players are guaranteed a 50/50 win ratio, as that's the only way that what you're saying would be applicable. At some point, if you don't have the skill, you will stop winning enough matches to get the progression needed to advance. The ranking system definitely favors forward progress, but will still effectively rank players by skill (at least at the top ranks). Only the best will make it to the top.

[ZAP]

If you like the card game not just the reward cycle/competition aspect, it's funner to headhunt/gatekeep ranks than actually participate in climbing.

[GarbageCollector]

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

Origineel geplaatst door GarbageCollector:

But you don't. All the way through diamond you get more forward progress for wins than losses thanks to the 2 (I think?) losses you can take at the lowest point of each rank tier before it sends you down to the one before it. If you just make it to Diamond 1, lose 3 times, then win 1, you'll be at Diamond 1 again, not Diamond 2 where you "belong". Also I'm fairly confident you can't demote out of mythic at all?

You seem to be operating under the assumption that players are guaranteed a 50/50 win ratio, as that's the only way that what you're saying would be applicable.

No, what I'm implying is that in this game with a bad ranking system, you don't need it. You can rank up with a 45% winrate all the way to mythic if you just grind it out. And that's really quite silly, no?

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

At some point, if you don't have the skill, you will stop winning enough matches to get the progression needed to advance.

Correct. In a well-designed system, that happens at ~50% win rate. I don't feel like doing the math to figure it out but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that up until gold you need something like a 25% win rate if your wins are "timed" properly because you get free losses that don't affect rank every so often and you get double the progression for every win. From then on up until mythic it's a little more stringent but still not close to 50%. I'll reiterate again that my opinion is that any system in which you can eventually rank up while continuously and consistently losing more than winning is asinine.

Origineel geplaatst door Kurt Angle's Neck:

The ranking system definitely favors forward progress, but will still effectively rank players by skill (at least at the top ranks). Only the best will make it to the top.

That's probably true after you get to the actual numbered mythic ranks. I'm not completely sure how it works but like I said in a previous post there's no technical reason at all that they can't apply the exact same elo system that chess uses for magic as well (as in, you gain more rank for upset wins and lose less for likely losses than the reverse) so I'd assume that's what they use... normally. I'm less confident while they have this silly "everybody wins just keep trying" system for all the lower ranks, but I digress.

Point is everything short of mythic ranks is not a real rank and shouldn't be taken seriously as a reliable indicator of skill.

[Sonic Mirage 🎸]

Sounds like you are supposed to be a plat player