Black overpowered?

[CJ desu]

New to Magic (literally day 8 of playing), so this may just be down to inexperience/get good. Comparing to Red/Green in Alchemy as that's what I play.

• Black has spells that outright kill creatures for low mana cost - as far as I can see there aren't any equivalents to this in red or green. Red has spells that deal a specific amount of damage, and green has spells that deal damage compared to your own creature strength, but these put a limit on the effectiveness of the spell.
  
• Sheoldred, the Apocalypse - no idea how this card isn't banned. 4 mana for a 4/5 deathtouch that deals 2 damage every time you draw...
  
• Black has plenty of synergy with the Ring, which is itself OP. e.g. Call of the Ring (2 mana enchantment) and Nazgul (3 mana wraith, +1/+1 on each wraith when the ring tempts you)

If this is just get good, then I would appreciate some help from experienced players who play red and/or green.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by nevilleosteen:

Ok, I know why OP made this thread now. OP, it's not black is overpowered, it's that Green is ass and literally has the HIV virus no cap, on God, can't even infect-deck properly.

Some idiot at wotc decided Green being the Timmy player meant they don't have to try with Green. Meanwhile, I see propaganda articles like "magic has learned to make early-game cards better to revitalize fun" NO. Making minor costing cards better snowballs which is the exact opposite of fun and interactive. You would think with Green's natural ramp, that'd make them awesome. But no, that's Red who comes in strong early. Green just tempos to the 10/10s way earlier than should be feasibly possible, but it's still not enough. Because getting to a 10/10 turn four instead of turn six, ultimately amounts to nothing as you have to assume your enemy has a response.

Black has generic removal.
Blue has bouncing and keeping them tapped.
White has Pariahs and equivalents.
Even Red has so much aggro by than, if you don't attack for game, he will.

So twice already we've established if you want to play Green, play Red instead.

Saw a simic deck a couple weeks ago drop a 250/250 on me turn 4. Earlier than should be feasible, for sure.

As for red... just play gruul. You get the best of both worlds.

[Aerowreck]

I think it's great there are many OP cards in all the colors. There have to be, to keep the game interesting.

I have been playing MTG on and off for 30 years - I even taught my sons to play. I started when 3rd edition/revised was new and I think The Dark expansion just came in. That was the time after Power 9, Arabian Nights etc. and the ban hammer was swinging wildly. When the 4th edition hit, it was just plain boring because there were not so many power cards in standard format. Ice Age -block hit the fields soon after that, then we at least got Necropotence decks. Adarkar Wastes and other pain dual lands date back there btw. They sucked, compared to original dual lands. :D

As for the fun formats, try drafting or sealed/limited whatever it is. I think it's the best Arena offers, you get the cards you draft and can win some packs and gems.

[Aerowreck]

... and on Starter Deck duels you play on even ground.

[CJ desu]

Originally posted by nevilleosteen:

Ok, I know why OP made this thread now. OP, it's not black is overpowered, it's that Green is ass and literally has the HIV virus no cap, on God, can't even infect-deck properly.

Some idiot at wotc decided Green being the Timmy player meant they don't have to try with Green. Meanwhile, I see propaganda articles like "magic has learned to make early-game cards better to revitalize fun" NO. Making minor costing cards better snowballs which is the exact opposite of fun and interactive. You would think with Green's natural ramp, that'd make them awesome. But no, that's Red who comes in strong early. Green just tempos to the 10/10s way earlier than should be feasibly possible, but it's still not enough. Because getting to a 10/10 turn four instead of turn six, ultimately amounts to nothing as you have to assume your enemy has a response.

Black has generic removal.
Blue has bouncing and keeping them tapped.
White has Pariahs and equivalents.
Even Red has so much aggro by than, if you don't attack for game, he will.

So twice already we've established if you want to play Green, play Red instead.

This is part of the issue - all colours should be viable, and it sucks that they aren't.

Btw, if Black isn't overpowered, why have over half of players been using black recently? I haven't kept meticulous records (and it's not a statistically large enough sample size), but roughly 15 out of my last 20 games have been against mono-black or two-colour with one of those colours being black. Clearly that reflects the current imbalance in the game. I'm just hoping it'll be addressed at some point, and my beloved green will get some love.

[Winter Wolf]

Sheoldred is by far the most OP card in Standard. This became very apparent after the last ban list. Thankfully it will be gone in another year or so from the format.

However you are clearly playing Alchemy which is not very well balanced for newcomers despite being the default format (for some reason). Try playing Standard as soon as you can. The Sheoldred/One Ring combo is ubiquitous in Alchemy and hardly fun to play against. At least in Standard you don't face that. Do remember to do your starter deck quests so you can acquire as many cards as possible for building with. Red is probably the easiest deck list to build at first and in Standard it is actually not horrible to play.

[九芫一]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

Sheoldred is by far the most OP card in Standard. This became very apparent after the last ban list. Thankfully it will be gone in another year or so from the format.

However you are clearly playing Alchemy which is not very well balanced for newcomers despite being the default format (for some reason). Try playing Standard as soon as you can. The Sheoldred/One Ring combo is ubiquitous in Alchemy and hardly fun to play against. At least in Standard you don't face that. Do remember to do your starter deck quests so you can acquire as many cards as possible for building with. Red is probably the easiest deck list to build at first and in Standard it is actually not horrible to play.

What this guy says is true. A LOT of people HATE alchemy. I'm not one of them, but I can see the reasons.

[Merry Christmas X-Box Its Usher]

picking a deck that does not fold to the meta is a part of "gitting gud". if you auto loose to the existence of sheoldred your deck is bad. i dont think there has ever been a point in the games history at all where every single combination of colors were top tier. something has to be the best. you arnt owed having the colors you like being top tier all the time. green aggro had its turn 2021-2022 in standard. and im saying this as someone who loves green beatdown. thinking dreams of steel and oil and phyrexian obliteraror are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is 100 percent a "git gud" issue.

however like other people said alchemy is just clownshoes, the lord of the rings set is made for a format much stronger then the standard sets next to, its only in alchemy because if it wasnt there would be a 5 month period with no releases on arena for its rotating formats. its not just a laughing stock to players but to other game designers.

bo1 also makes bad matchups possibly worse as you dont get a sideboard to change your deck up, and imo highlights some of the more annoying things about magic in general.

so my advice is: stop playing alchemy, stop playing best of one when you have a collection that can support having a sideboard, and try to find a deck proven to tango with sheoldred/black as a whole, whether that means joining them or not.

[Minmataro]

Only people that have issues with Shelly were mono red players. This was before Wizards gave yall a instant 5 damage burn in Witchstalker Frenzy.

[Berserkr]

If someone is playing green or red or a combo of both and they have nothing non damaging to get rid of an Obliterator how the Hell is that a git gud issue?

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Berserkr:

If someone is playing green or red or a combo of both and they have nothing non damaging to get rid of an Obliterator how the Hell is that a git gud issue?

The options are there. You chose not to put them in your deck during construction. That's a skill issue. Every color has ways to handle Obliterator. There are also colorless options. Green also has access to things like Sigarda that prevent abilities your opponents control from causing you to sacrifice, though that requires splashing white too. There's also the go-wide option that green and red tend to employ in the first place that just accepts sacrificing 5 tokens in order to get rid of Obliterator.

Skill issue. Use your head when building your deck. You should know just by reading a card which ways your deck is capable of handling that card. If it simply can't, you need to either re-build your deck so that it does, or accept that you should concede the moment the spell hits the stack.

[Berserkr]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by Berserkr:

If someone is playing green or red or a combo of both and they have nothing non damaging to get rid of an Obliterator how the Hell is that a git gud issue?

The options are there. You chose not to put them in your deck during construction. That's a skill issue. Every color has ways to handle Obliterator. There are also colorless options. Green also has access to things like Sigarda that prevent abilities your opponents control from causing you to sacrifice, though that requires splashing white too. There's also the go-wide option that green and red tend to employ in the first place that just accepts sacrificing 5 tokens in order to get rid of Obliterator.

Skill issue. Use your head when building your deck. You should know just by reading a card which ways your deck is capable of handling that card. If it simply can't, you need to either re-build your deck so that it does, or accept that you should concede the moment the spell hits the stack.

You're talking Alchemy here?

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Minmataro:

Only people that have issues with Shelly were mono red players. This was before Wizards gave yall a instant 5 damage burn in Witchstalker Frenzy.

Sheoldred is a funny one to see people complaining about, because it's the most balanced of the Praetors, from all 3 cycles. 15 cards and something like 9 of them basically guarantee victory the moment they hit the battlefield. And the one people are complaining about is the 11th or 12th strongest of the bunch, primarily a life gain effect that punishes greedy opponents who put in too much card draw and not enough removal or life gain. A 10 turn clock should not be making people this salty.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by Berserkr:

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

The options are there. You chose not to put them in your deck during construction. That's a skill issue. Every color has ways to handle Obliterator. There are also colorless options. Green also has access to things like Sigarda that prevent abilities your opponents control from causing you to sacrifice, though that requires splashing white too. There's also the go-wide option that green and red tend to employ in the first place that just accepts sacrificing 5 tokens in order to get rid of Obliterator.

Skill issue. Use your head when building your deck. You should know just by reading a card which ways your deck is capable of handling that card. If it simply can't, you need to either re-build your deck so that it does, or accept that you should concede the moment the spell hits the stack.

You're talking Alchemy here?

I'm talking in general. Sigarda is a specific example that I don't think is in Standard, but the general ideas being talked about are true regardless of format.

[CJ desu]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by Berserkr:

You're talking Alchemy here?

I'm talking in general. Sigarda is a specific example that I don't think is in Standard, but the general ideas being talked about are true regardless of format.

Then name a red or green card in Alchemy that can deal with an Obliterator.

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by CJ desu:

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

I'm talking in general. Sigarda is a specific example that I don't think is in Standard, but the general ideas being talked about are true regardless of format.

Then name a red or green card in Alchemy that can deal with an Obliterator.

Red at least has stuff that generates cheap quick tokens. Churn out 5 goblins and smack it with a Rebel Salvo. Or Breaking of the Fellowship, if the opponent has something with 5 power out.