To much slow playing.

[Ezra]

If you are taking longer then 10 seconds to decide on an opening hand or if you are taking more then 60 seconds to fetch a land and move through the phases... YOU ARE A BAD MAGIC PLAYER.

The last time I saw someone play Turbofart's or Mill in a Paper magic event Locals or Organized was when Revilark was still in Standard during Lorwyn Block.
It's not a good approach to the game outside of Kitchen Table Magic.

I don't want to stretch my games out past 4-6 turns to accommodate something that will just loose in the end because they failed to realize at a core level that the base colors in magic are representative of phases and moments in nature.

Though stagnation exists in nature it often leads to pestilence and extinction and focusing in on disrupting an opponent to the point where your only clause for Victory is your opponent not winning is not optimal.

But I am sure that's obvious to most players who willingly choose to play Mill or Turbofarts. Because if they wanted to "Win" or "Actually Play" vs the Trolling they are doing they'd play a Combo Variant.

Similar to Turbofart's or Mill in the fact that it does minimal opponent interactions it just sits there and waits disrupts when needed casting Cantrips and Wishes until they have what they need. Unlike the other's though Combo top 8's often with the other viable archtypes/Primers Aggro, Burn, Control, Mid-range, Tribal Tempo (Goblins/Merforlk/Elves for instance)

[Blackfrost]

Reid Duke ( Pro Tour Phyrexia winner, MTGO 2011 winner, six-time GP winner, three Pro Tour Top 8 ) taking nearly a minute to decide whether to mulligan or not on Game 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_rqaKW0bE&t=3244s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Duke

Video includes a 2-minute long turn-two choice of play.

You don't need to create 6.000.000 fake scenarios in your head: Pros play slowly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Blackfrost:

Reid Duke ( Pro Tour Phyrexia winner, MTGO 2011 winner, six-time GP winner, three Pro Tour Top 8 ) taking nearly a minute to decide whether to mulligan or not on Game 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui_rqaKW0bE&t=3244s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Duke

Video includes a 2-minute long turn-two choice of play.

You don't need to create 6.000.000 fake scenarios in your head: Pros play slowly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Exactly, Clearly by your own post you've realized that in fact because their are not 100's of scenarios you do not need to take forever and you can go ahead and play the game even if it's turning out unfavorable for you at the time. If you've every been to any kind of constructed event you'd realize that a Bo3 match should take about 40 minutes as per most tourney regulations and not 2+ hours. Now again have a nice day and go fudge yourself.

[Soylent ◄SaM►]

The amount of "thinking" time allowed in every single step, no matter the circumstances, if far from the optimal solution. And they are not even trying to approximate a better solution. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Soylent ◄SaM►:

The amount of "thinking" time allowed in every single step, no matter the circumstances, if far from the optimal solution. And they are not even trying to approximate a better solution. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥.

Right, It's so much fun to wait for my opponent to go to time only to play a fetch land go to time again finally pass, I go to play and crack my fetch they wait and burn down the timer wait again put in a shock and wait some more. IDK if all the sit around and wait is really needed, 10-20 seconds per game state change would be nice instead of the 3+ minutes it seems to be.

[Namdoolb]

Fundamentally I'm not opposed to a deck that operates slowly. If your chosen strategy takes many turns to win, then more power to you:
Either you'll make it happen, whilst also defending yourself from your more aggressive opponent, or you'll lose because you're not suppressing your opponents' attack.

There are two paths to victory; both equally valid: Either finish your opponent faster than they can finish you, or interact with them to slow their progress so you can win. The slower deck doesn't survive without interaction.

Now, on the topic of slow tactical play: Yes.
I'm not averse to a player taking a little time to think if the board state is complicated. Some situations require quite a bit of analysis to find the optimal course of action. But there is a definite tendency for some players to take a lot more time than they need over decisions that should be very simple. And yeah: That sucks.

[Winter Wolf]

And then there are streamers like Seth, Probably Better Known as Saffron Olive whom I highly respect and admire for his fun attitude and great imagination with deck building but who drives me nuts watching him rope against his ops while he describes a thought that has nothing to do with the play at hand. And I imagine whenever I've seen an opponent roping they are just mimicking that to some degree.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

And then there are streamers like Seth, Probably Better Known as Saffron Olive whom I highly respect and admire for his fun attitude and great imagination with deck building but who drives me nuts watching him rope against his ops while he describes a thought that has nothing to do with the play at hand. And I imagine whenever I've seen an opponent roping they are just mimicking that to some degree.

IDK who that is. I only track good magic players such as,

Paulo Vitor Damo Da Rosa

John Finkel

Gabriel Nassif

Kai Budde

Shota Yasooka

Luis Scott-Vargas

Marcio Carvalho

Seth Manfield

Javier Dominguez

Josh Utter-Leyton

and other hall of fame members and future hall of fame members.

Or investors/collectors/retailers who hold a percentage amount of a print run on a card like Rudy from Alpha Investments.

So awkward watching my opponent stumble through their combo's only to scoop after wasting time. Or if your opponent is playing Control and always Auto-Taps and never leaves double Blue open for Counterspell or some other similar interaction. Or they sorcery speed a Main Phase 1 Brainstorm to set-up their Delver of Secrets only to crack a fetch right after shuffle them away and fail the reveal versus waiting to stack the trigger resolve the reveal and then crack the fetch to blind draw if needed.

[Winter Wolf]

Heh I know some of the players on that list from years gone by. One great thing about being a New Yorker is the natural talent we had near by for M:TG. Also having to play against them. :p

"Seth Probably better known as SaffronOlive" is not a pro. But he is a very good streamer and content creator and makes janky decks that win far more often than they should.

That delver goof sounds like the worst brainstorm ever. :p

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

Heh I know some of the players on that list from years gone by. One great thing about being a New Yorker is the natural talent we had near by for M:TG. Also having to play against them. :p

"Seth Probably better known as SaffronOlive" is not a pro. But he is a very good streamer and content creator and makes janky decks that win far more often than they should.

That delver goof sounds like the worst brainstorm ever. :p

The Highlight for me was they cast counterspell on Bloodbraid Elf before the Cascade trigger, Only for it to be Tribal Flames for 5 damage and them going to 3 and dead after combat phase but they scooped instead.

[ZAP]

Someone might be using an accessibility device if the turns are slow but the same exact pace and continually advancing the boardstate so I try not to just start out using emote combinations excessively but it's a clear difference than someone being a jerk roping or texting someone distracted.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by ZAP:

Someone might be using an accessibility device if the turns are slow but the same exact pace and continually advancing the boardstate so I try not to just start out using emote combinations excessively but it's a clear difference than someone being a jerk roping or texting someone distracted.

Yeah of course, This is directed at people who sandbag their mulligan phase by waiting so long it goes to their first timer only for them to keep it wait for the timer to appear again wait until it gets as low as they are comfortable with and play a land either fetch or shock and decide if they want to pay 2 life or activate it only for them to finally either not crack the fetch or pay 2 life so they can have an active 1 mana disruption or brainstorm to sandbag as a potential interaction for each play you attempt to make all while still losing on turn 4. What was the point of making a game one go past the 40+ minute mark without having done any subsequent turns past 4, In Bo3 you could argue more information but that's not really to valid most people meta-aware ought to realize what their opponent is playing in less then 3 cards, Unless it's a pile of Jank.

[ZAP]

Some of these mofos are either streamers or trying some highlight glitch like they're explaining every function and interaction so I'll emulate them highlighting cards in the same order with the Cthulhu emote popping off in the background on autoplay.

[Snoot Boops]

i noticed that through a discord channel i'm in that people will stream and then have others that are far better, backseat game the entire match for the person streaming on discord. which causes the timer to just run and run and run and run down on each of their turns until a choice is made for them.

its not exactly what i would say is fair play. it's basically a 2v1 and i see it as a form of cheating. especially if that deck was built for you by the back seat gamer and they know it inside out and inside in and backwards and forwards and you as the player are at least halfway competent in understanding how the game works and the functions of your cards.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by ＯＮＹＸ:

i noticed that through a discord channel i'm in that people will stream and then have others that are far better, backseat game the entire match for the person streaming on discord. which causes the timer to just run and run and run and run down on each of their turns until a choice is made for them.

its not exactly what i would say is fair play. it's basically a 2v1 and i see it as a form of cheating. especially if that deck was built for you by the back seat gamer and they know it inside out and inside in and backwards and forwards and you as the player are at least halfway competent in understanding how the game works and the functions of your cards.

Holy Sh!t that's wild.

"Let me play this game while on discord so someone can hold my hand through each action versus learning how to play the game myself."

That's a huge leap even beyond RTFC (Read the F%ck!ng card) sleeves. Now I'm going to need PTFG (Play the F%ck!ng game) sleeves.

[Winter Wolf]

"Playing the game, Explains the game"?