Go fund me to Sue Wizards for the Rigging of Arena!

[Equinox_Alpha]

I'm in the process of putting together a go fund campaign to sue Wizards of the Coast over the blatant match rigging in Magic The Gathering: Arena

The rigging is provable and there is enough data to make that clear in a court of law. It will be my purpose that Wizards knowingly rigged the game to their favor, and they are profiting from it.

Once a player has tripped over a line in terms of their stats the game uses the following rigging tactics.

1. Matchmaker is based upon a hidden algorithm that mysteriously places you against opponents with the perfect deck and hand to prevent you from winning.

2. Mana Curve is modified, and your hands and draw will contain over-average land distribution or under-average land distribution - beyond what should be expected in a random shuffle.

3. every opponent has perfect hands of god - perfectly answers every card you have in your hand or draw. almost as if the decks are stacked and the opponent can see your hand.

4. The coin toss as to who goes first is altered in favour of the opponent who will go first an over-average number of times.

5. If you choose a mid-game deck, you will always face fast aggro decks - miss match games / auto-win games.

6. The deck archetype the opponent plays is directly opposed to your deck, if you choose a creature deck then you face creature killer decks, if you play an enchantment deck your opponent's deck will be an anti enchantment deck.

7. If you change deck then the decks you are playing against also change to the exact right decks to counter yours.

8. The cadence of new cards has increased meaning there are a new set of question and answer cards you MUST buy in order to stand a chance - i.e. Pay to Win model.

The above has been proven through data analysis, but the intention is to get the court to agree to an independent review of the code both client and server side, to get to the real evidence.

Please like or comment if you would like to contribute!

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

You wish I was wrong. You get one pile shuffle at the beginning of play before randomization of cards (actual shuffle) and an opponent cuts(or shuffles again for you), then that becomes your library. There are no rules that state a player cant pile shuffle so that lands dont touch.

https://cantrip.ru/en/mtg-judge/shuffling-the-deck.shtml

Here, all from your own link:

Randomization is defined as bringing the deck to a state where no player can have any information regarding the order or position of cards in any portion of the deck.

A player's deck is not sufficiently randomized if the judge believes a player knows the position or distribution of one or multiple cards in the deck. It is considered that before a player sets to shuffle his deck he knows the distribution of cards in it. Weaving or stacking of the deck is allowed, as long as the deck gets thoroughly shuffled afterwards.

Stacking a deck without further randomization, as well as marked cards, fits the “Unsporting Conduct — Cheating” category, which leads to Disqualification.

Regardless of the methods chosen, the deck must be completely randomized. Patterned pile-shuffling alone is not sufficient to consider a deck properly randomized (since, as mentioned above, it is considered that a player knows the distribution of cards in his deck).

Your deck must be shuffled to a point that neither you or your opponent can have any knowledge of position or distribution of any any cards. If you are able to know the general distribution of lands in your deck, it isn't properly shuffled, and you are cheating (and will be banned from participating in any official event).

hahaha ok man, the problem is I do this at official location and have zero problems so sure, you can type up on Steam that I am violating the rules except in reality I am not violating the rules and I question if you even play the real game or if you just play on Arena every time you post.

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Mana weaving is only illegal if that's the method of shuffling...

There is nothing wrong with weaving alternating lands every 2-3 cards then proceeding to shuffle a few times and have your opponent cut the deck, and the outcome is much more organic than stacking all lands in a pile and shuffling in that way.

Edit: ... and its much more organic than the computers raw RNG generation, which is my point here. I never EVER pull 7 lands in a row when I play in real life. For some reason, that is a biweekly occurrence on Arena, and its due to the true RNG of it.

It's a violation of the rules in any and all cases where it has ANY influence on the randomness of your deck. You are correct in that mana weaving isn't against the rules if you properly shuffle afterwards. However, you're also arguing that doing so changes the distribution of cards in the deck. In order for that to be true, you necessarily need to be violating the rules in the process.

Both methods you describe should be equally random. If this is not the case, then you are not considered to have actually shuffled the deck yet according to the rules of the game.

I think the point here to learn from is that randomness is actually a spectrum, rather than an exact thing... Arena is not the true random everyone thinks it is. It is Pseudo-random. There is a code that "randomly" arranges the cards and it creates unrealistic pockets at times, but since everyone is forced to abide by the code, it isn't a problem of cheating. It is a problem of in-authenticity.

In real life, It is a randomized deck the moment it is not predictable and systematically arranged. For me personally, since I have zero intentions on tracking cards, nor am I "weaving" the lands exactly to the ratio of the total deck count, that happens the moment I do my first shuffle. I then do a couple more for reassurance of my opponent. Nobody in the word is tracking that.

Anyway, at some point, shuffling becomes an unrealistic ask. What do I mean by that? Well I have discussed this with higher tier players than me, to learn how "good" players do things, naturally, so I can become a better player myself. A lot of them have said "don't shuffle more than X times (usually they say don't shuffle more than 7 times or so) or it creates pockets in your library"...

So in real life, the deck is randomized the moment it is not predictable, which is achievable in just a few shuffles, but if you shuffle 50 more times, it is also randomized, yet those two states are actually different levels of randomized, and you now are going to have inevitable pockets develop from the excessive shuffling, so players know not to do that and everyone actively avoids that.

Separating lands quickly during a pile shuffle is not mana weaving

[Winter Wolf]

Id say not everyone knows not to shuffle excessively. I've seen people shuffle so hard and long they lost grasp of their deck and dropped them all on the floor creating both a mess and a time waster.

I think there is certainly a point to say the shufflers of digital produts ought to randomize like a human rather than like a machine. If only because we would be more comfortable with that. But unfortunately companies that make digital games worry about things like gaming commissions and other government agencies (especially games that have world-wide scope) interfering with or even stopping their revenue streams.

It does not help that it is hard to argue that a randomizer that shufflers 50x more than a human would is not random.

[Winter Wolf]

"Separating lands quickly during a pile shuffle is not mana weaving" this is not how some judges will interpret it and you can be dqed for it. You might even be banned from events if you get a dq and then do it again. It really depends on who is judging and what the REL level is. Lower rel levels (FNM, store events) tend to not have serious judging.

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

"Separating lands quickly during a pile shuffle is not mana weaving" this is not how some judges will interpret it and you can be dqed for it. You might even be banned from events if you get a dq and then do it again. It really depends on who is judging and what the REL level is. Lower rel levels (FNM, store events) tend to not have serious judging.

A dq will never happen for what I am describing, closest you'll get is an extra shuffle request.

What is the alternative? Stacking all the lands in one pile during the pile shuffle count then shuffling them in? If anything, that is creating something more predictable than what I am describing.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/best-way-to-shuffle-cards-math_n_6948720

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

Id say not everyone knows not to shuffle excessively. I've seen people shuffle so hard and long they lost grasp of their deck and dropped them all on the floor creating both a mess and a time waster.

I think there is certainly a point to say the shufflers of digital produts ought to randomize like a human rather than like a machine. If only because we would be more comfortable with that. But unfortunately companies that make digital games worry about things like gaming commissions and other government agencies (especially games that have world-wide scope) interfering with or even stopping their revenue streams.

It does not help that it is hard to argue that a randomizer that shufflers 50x more than a human would is not random.

I think you are basically saying what I am saying here. Digital shufflers dont shuffle like humans at all because humans know if they hit a 50x shuffle, sure, it will be randomized, but it will be "inauthentic", because your opponent is getting away with hitting 3x shuffles and not having major land pocket odds. I think that is why Arena makes so many people feel it is rigged.

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/best-way-to-shuffle-cards-math_n_6948720

Ok, but those are playing cards. I have seen .01% of Magic players in real life trad-shuffle aka Riffle shuffle their deck since we are playing with some cards that are much more valuable and we don't want to damage them. Everybody sleeves up then "Mash Shuffles" them from the sides, which is not covered in that video, but I suspect is equally random to a riffle shuffle after watching his slow motion shuffling arrangement.

Also, that is not answering my question. An initial pile shuffle is legal, and there are no rules saying the lands have to be stacked in a single pile during the process, so how is it lawfully supposed to be performed? Seeding lands to not touch in said piles is still not mana weaving.

[Kurt Angle's Neck]

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Ok, but those are playing cards.

And? The math is the same, the deck will be equally randomized regardless of what's on the face.

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

I have seen .01% of Magic players in real life trad-shuffle aka Riffle shuffle their deck since we are playing with some cards that are much more valuable and we don't want to damage them. Everybody sleeves up then "Mash Shuffles" them from the sides, which is not covered in that video, but I suspect is equally random to a riffle shuffle after watching his slow motion shuffling arrangement.

I'm sure if we did a test, there would be a measurable difference between a traditional riffle and side-mashing, but I'd definitely agree that they should be very close in effectiveness, especially when compared to other styles of shuffling.

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Also, that is not answering my question. An initial pile shuffle is legal, and there are no rules saying the lands have to be stacked in a single pile during the process, so how is it lawfully supposed to be performed? Seeding lands to not touch in said piles is still not mana weaving.

The initial pile shuffle is meant to be used for counting your cards, and doesn't count as randomization (pile shuffling doesn't randomize, it just reorders the cards). It is still assumed at that point that you know (or at least have the ability to know) the order of the cards, and thus why you are required to use a proper shuffling technique afterwards. As long as you're properly shuffling, it doesn't matter how you order the cards at the beggining, because the shuffling will randomize things to the point that you would have no way of knowing the position or distribution of any cards. Unfortunately, most judges are not actually going to require a truly proper shuffle, which would be 7+ side mashes/riffles as that article points out, so I'm sure people get away with improper shuffles all the time... that doesn't make it correct, though.

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by Kurt Angle's Neck:

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Ok, but those are playing cards.

And? The math is the same, the deck will be equally randomized regardless of what's on the face.

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

I have seen .01% of Magic players in real life trad-shuffle aka Riffle shuffle their deck since we are playing with some cards that are much more valuable and we don't want to damage them. Everybody sleeves up then "Mash Shuffles" them from the sides, which is not covered in that video, but I suspect is equally random to a riffle shuffle after watching his slow motion shuffling arrangement.

I'm sure if we did a test, there would be a measurable difference between a traditional riffle and side-mashing, but I'd definitely agree that they should be very close in effectiveness, especially when compared to other styles of shuffling.

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Also, that is not answering my question. An initial pile shuffle is legal, and there are no rules saying the lands have to be stacked in a single pile during the process, so how is it lawfully supposed to be performed? Seeding lands to not touch in said piles is still not mana weaving.

The initial pile shuffle is meant to be used for counting your cards, and doesn't count as randomization (pile shuffling doesn't randomize, it just reorders the cards). It is still assumed at that point that you know (or at least have the ability to know) the order of the cards, and thus why you are required to use a proper shuffling technique afterwards. As long as you're properly shuffling, it doesn't matter how you order the cards at the beggining, because the shuffling will randomize things to the point that you would have no way of knowing the position or distribution of any cards. Unfortunately, most judges are not actually going to require a truly proper shuffle, which would be 7+ side mashes/riffles as that article points out, so I'm sure people get away with improper shuffles all the time... that doesn't make it correct, though.

Essentially, yeah... All I know is that I used to do my pile shuffle with lands in their own piles then shuffle a few times and I would have land pockets in the deck and it would lose me matches, so I just started pile shuffling with lands here and there not touching instead and that stopped happening as bad and nobody has said a word since they know I am not tracking anything. It doesn't mean I know where the cards are.

...but knowing that Judges are not going to require someone to do 7 mashes every time, more realistically they will expect id say 3 shuffles?, then it becomes a self inflicted handicap to "do the right thing" by mashing 7 times even if that is much closer to far end of the randomization spectrum.

That is also why Arena feels rigged. Arena RNG is "true random", but since Magic originated IRL paper, it makes Arena feel wrong since you are likely not encountering those extremely random land pockets IRL.

That was my original point is all.

[Berserkr]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

I hear you. I won't bother blocking because I am too curious to miss parts of a thread I am reading but yeah I don't blame you at all.

I just wish the Steam mods would do a better job of locking useless pointless threads but they're pretty terrible at it tbh

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by Berserkr:

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

I hear you. I won't bother blocking because I am too curious to miss parts of a thread I am reading but yeah I don't blame you at all.

I just wish the Steam mods would do a better job of locking useless pointless threads but they're pretty terrible at it tbh

Reddit already exists, if you want threads to feel like a concentration camp you can hang there, nobody is stopping you. Steam is low key kinda dope for letting people talk. The issue is inherent in humans. Some people say goofy stuff it is what it is. A chance to build tolerance levels and treat all digital discussion as if you are talking face to face with someone.

[DontMisunderstand]

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Originally posted by Berserkr:

I just wish the Steam mods would do a better job of locking useless pointless threads but they're pretty terrible at it tbh

Reddit already exists, if you want threads to feel like a concentration camp you can hang there, nobody is stopping you. Steam is low key kinda dope for letting people talk. The issue is inherent in humans. Some people say goofy stuff it is what it is. A chance to build tolerance levels and treat all digital discussion as if you are talking face to face with someone.

If we treated internet conversations the same way we do face-to-face discussions, I wager you'd think it felt a lot MORE like a "concentration camp". The defining feature of in-person social etiquette is a zero tolerance policy for "goofy stuff" as you call it.

[CourtJesterCowboy]

Originally posted by DontMisunderstand:

Originally posted by CourtJesterCowboy:

Reddit already exists, if you want threads to feel like a concentration camp you can hang there, nobody is stopping you. Steam is low key kinda dope for letting people talk. The issue is inherent in humans. Some people say goofy stuff it is what it is. A chance to build tolerance levels and treat all digital discussion as if you are talking face to face with someone.

If we treated internet conversations the same way we do face-to-face discussions, I wager you'd think it felt a lot MORE like a "concentration camp". The defining feature of in-person social etiquette is a zero tolerance policy for "goofy stuff" as you call it.

Pfffffft my man, go outside. That is ridiculous.

[Ha 何豪源]

when the opponent is 1 shot away from losing, the auto-land-tapper is so rigged and takes your non-basics LANDS. WTF IS THAT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ - that happened to me like twice today. now you can say, ye why you dont tap manually - maybe because it worked till that moment?!