Double avoid tactic question

[Michanicks]

I got this idea after fighting final boss in Dark Souls of getting an extra avoid as the measure of getting the right timing on actual avoiding.

During the actions like enemy grabs and Kuroki dropkick i make the first avoid right away knowing it's too soon and making the second avoid right away that usually gets the timing right. So, instead of trying to press avoid at the right time (i often fail and do it too late or too soon), i just consistently spam the avoid 2 times.

Is there any flaws in this tactic? How good it in the master difficulty? I hope it's not considered cheesing, because it feels like a spamming buttons rather than getting timing right, but my reaction time is only can be so good and i am not sure it's worth investing skill in something that makes already complicated and complex fight system even harder.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Is there any flaws in this tactic?

Much like with spamming any defensive mechanic, there's always a non-zero chance that you could still mistime it, and/or miss the window necessary for it to count as a correctly timed avoid. There is a brief period between the two avoids where you can still get hit, so.

Originally posted by Michanicks:

How good is it in the master difficulty? [...] i am not sure it's worth investing skill in something that makes already complicated and complex fight system even harder

I'd imagine about the same as on Disciple. You're using it to avoid the very first attack in a string, after all. Worth noting that you don't get anything special out of playing on any specific difficulty - all progression and unlocks (including achievements, like Prodigal Child) work exactly the same regardless of difficulty.

Originally posted by Michanicks:

I hope it's not considered cheesing

It's a singleplayer PvE game, who cares.

[Michanicks]

Originally posted by JAG:

Thank you. While fighting Yang, flurry of stikes seems to be the most effective move. It's that true? How i'm expected to strike him if i would not have this move unlocked (only unlocked while you are young)? Is there any more effective combos? He just dodges/blocks/parries/counters everything else it seems, the only other obvious way is just parry him until he breaks, but i talk about damage dealing, is there anything better/equally as good as heavy + heavy?

[JAG]

Originally posted by Michanicks:

While fighting Yang, flurry of strikes (Raining Strikes?) seems to be the most effective move. It's that true?

It's the most reliable one for sure. Off the top of my head, here's a few other ways to attack him (most are post-parry/post-avoid, obviously):

• Just using regular Light/Heavy attacks, as you mentioned.
  
• Sweeping and using a ground beatdown (will also restore some structure)
  
• Crooked Foot
  
• Chasing Strikes (Chasing Trip Kick will just get blocked if not in superdizzy, although it will inflict a bit of structure damage)
  
• Counterhitting him with Hook Intercept (both regular and reverse variants), or with Reverse Duck Strike (set up with Flowing Claw).
  
• Charged Backfist
  
• Intentionally baiting and avoiding a Double Claw while he is in a defensive stance

Side note, if Yang ever stops attacking and goes into a defensive stance, you can re-aggro him by taunting (3 on keyboard, right on D-Pad).

[Michanicks]

Originally posted by JAG:

Originally posted by Michanicks:

While fighting Yang, flurry of strikes (Raining Strikes?) seems to be the most effective move. It's that true?

It's the most reliable one for sure. Off the top of my head, here's a few other ways to attack him (most are post-parry/post-avoid, obviously):

• Just using regular Light/Heavy attacks, as you mentioned.
  
• Sweeping and using a ground beatdown (will also restore some structure)
  
• Crooked Foot
  
• Chasing Strikes (Chasing Trip Kick will just get blocked if not in superdizzy, although it will inflict a bit of structure damage)
  
• Counterhitting him with Hook Intercept (both regular and reverse variants), or with Reverse Duck Strike (set up with Flowing Claw).
  
• Charged Backfist
  
• Intentionally baiting and avoiding a Double Claw while he is in a defensive stance

Side note, if Yang ever stops attacking and goes into a defensive stance, you can re-aggro him by taunting (3 on keyboard, right on D-Pad).

Is there any benefits of different moves or it's the question of preferences/variability? Like example, woudn't regular light and heavy attacks be much weaker than raining strikes? Is there info sheet where i could learn damage numbers to learn about which moves are worth it?

Can you tell more about defence stance, you tell it in the way like it's something specific i should know about, but i really don't. It's when he taunt you? I still don't get what does it change, he seems to randomly block some strikes but getting hit by others.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Is there any benefit of different moves or is it the question of preferences/variability?

It's both a question of preference (in the sense of "how easy it is to use"), and a question of applicability (in the sense of "what attacks can I use this against"), as well as what particular benefit you'd like to get from the attack. Crooked Foot is a guaranteed knockdown, which is great for structure. Charged Backfist is a great counterhit, but only works against highs and mids. The armor on Hook Intercept/Duck Strike gets you damaged at the cost of letting your attack to continue (unless you time the Deflect while attacking). Stuff like that.

Variety is a factor too, if you get bored of just doing the same thing over and over. But that's entirely subjective.

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Is there info sheet where i could learn damage numbers to learn about which moves are worth it?

There is! Hopefully Steam doesn't delete the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LKqfP2tbimL6rF13fU0auVFOkQR0sbVx1ZtRE8OnovI/edit?usp=sharing

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Can you tell more about defence stance

I use that term to describe every instance when Yang stops attacking, and starts backing away from you/returning to the center of his arena, which is bad, since he restores structure during that time. He usually de-aggros after successfully attacking you, or after you've avoided enough of his attacks (I'm forgoing a lot of nuance for simplicity's sake). When he's in a defensive stance, he'll always avoid your first attack, and retaliate with a double claw swipe, which can be abused. The key to preventing him from going into that stance is to either constantly deflect his attacks, or to taunt.

[Michanicks]

Originally posted by JAG:

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Is there any benefit of different moves or is it the question of preferences/variability?

It's both a question of preference (in the sense of "how easy it is to use"), and a question of applicability (in the sense of "what attacks can I use this against"), as well as what particular benefit you'd like to get from the attack. Crooked Foot is a guaranteed knockdown, which is great for structure. Charged Backfist is a great counterhit, but only works against highs and mids. The armor on Hook Intercept/Duck Strike gets you damaged at the cost of letting your attack to continue (unless you time the Deflect while attacking). Stuff like that.

Variety is a factor too, if you get bored of just doing the same thing over and over. But that's entirely subjective.

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Is there info sheet where i could learn damage numbers to learn about which moves are worth it?

There is! Hopefully Steam doesn't delete the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LKqfP2tbimL6rF13fU0auVFOkQR0sbVx1ZtRE8OnovI/edit?usp=sharing

Originally posted by Michanicks:

Can you tell more about defence stance

I use that term to describe every instance when Yang stops attacking, and starts backing away from you/returning to the center of his arena, which is bad, since he restores structure during that time. He usually de-aggros after successfully attacking you, or after you've avoided enough of his attacks (I'm forgoing a lot of nuance for simplicity's sake). When he's in a defensive stance, he'll always avoid your first attack, and retaliate with a double claw swipe, which can be abused. The key to preventing him from going into that stance is to either constantly deflect his attacks, or to taunt.

Thank you for your help.