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Shouldn't you follow your own advice first? Not a single number you mentioned is backed by anything else than your assumption... It's hard to take you seriously.
Sifu was made with UE4, it's a low poly game, so no it didn't cost them "...costs several Million..." nor did it require them 5 year to dev it.
Hollow Knight rised "57 138 AU$" to dev their game.
Stardew Valley was self funded.
Most Indie game cost never come close to hit half a million, and barely any hit the million in cost.
What' s more Sifu was made by a Dev team supported by a massive investissement found. "https://www.groupechevrillon.com/investissements/sloclap/"
So, no they didn't need the money from Epic and Tencent.
By the way "Either you make some research before you claim something or you stfu."
Do you see Terraria Clone released each week? It's one of the most popular indie game and it could simply be copied. Because a game dont cost a lot dont mean that everyone want to copy it...
Sloclap has 80 employess which you can check on their website.
The average salary in france is 2300 €. However you can multiplay that by 1.2-1.4 for actual costs for the employer. That is no made up number but the actual rule of thumb. Google it.
So roundabout 3000 bucks a month is a good estimation by me.
So that 250.000 bucks a year costs for salary+additional employe costs is pretty solid.
Office + marketing ontop. (marketing is not cheap).
Can you provide anything of substance as well or you just an average angry forum troll?
Oh no, what should i do? You personaly attack me after ignoring the totality of what i said that show how hollow your agrument is.
Sifu barely had any marketing, and the fact that they could have any mean that they never were short on money. Any team short on money do not put any money in marketing and French Video company put even less than most other country.
The avearge salary in a country mean nothing... A single person being paid 50 000€ per month would totaly break the maths.
Anyone who dont want to be biased use the median, and surprisingly it drop to "22 040 euros annuels" from the "39 600 euros brut annuels" from the avearge.
It also is a know fact that dev in most French video game development company that are not small are poorly paid.
This could also help you. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A15811
"Either you make some research before you claim something or you stfu." Do you still not want to follow your own advice before saying random things?
Well first up. Don't act surprised if i call you a troll. You basicly started your reply to me by calling me a whiteknight who does not use common sense. So ya you get as good as you give.
Who said they are short on money? They got support from epic/sony they are not short on money. The point is they probably would be short (or at least shorter) on money without epic/sony.
I am sure Sifu development cost is not less then 1 million bucks. It's a game made by a medium sized studio. No way they work several years on this game with less then a million bucks.
I also doubt the avarega salary for working by sloclap is around 22.000 . That is way too low.
google says programmer in france earn about 75.000 a year. So ya. Ofc not everyone by sloclap earns that much. Most will earn much much less. But the chief developer surely do not work for 22.000 bucks. Don't even try to argue on that.
There are definatly people working at sloclap that get something around 50.000-75000 a year. At least the senior developers. And even if only 3-4 of those 80 employees earn that much it would push the develoment cost by roundabout 200.000 bucks only for thoe 3-4 people.
This is the most used medium for people working in programing who look for work or worker in france.
"Salaire annuel : entre 30 000 € et 40 000 €"
https://www.afjv.com/news/7107_guide-des-metiers-programmeur-de-jeux-video.htm
Median € 3 333/ Mois
https://fr.talent.com/salary?job=d%C3%A9veloppeur
Boy, you're the one who pulled the "The average salary in france is 2300 €." without even understanding that an "average salary" mean nothing because of the huge difference between what the majority and the minority earn. The minority always earn a lot more impacting the average and making it a useless thing.
I even have to explain it totaly?
So you didnt even read what i wrote? So you dont even know by who this studio is supported? You dont know that the people who support them are millionaire? You dont know that they never had any need for Sony nor Epic and the only reason they chose their money was because the people owning them are greedy?
You keep insulting me of troll and else, but you're the one that dont post anything but "the 1st google search i did showed a random number i dont understand so i'm right."
I'm still waiting your proof for your. "Sloclap is a medium sized developer. A game like Sifu costs several Million bucks to make..."
Since my post already proved your "...and not every developer is capable to maintain the development without money upfront." not aplying to them.
So let me get this straight. Cause they get support from someone who is a millionar (according to you) they don't need any development help.
Oh boy i didn't knew there is a good samaritan behind sloclap giving em all the money in the world without asking anything in return.
Jeezsus christ what utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I am out now. Holy moly.
"https://www.groupechevrillon.com/investissements/sloclap/"
Are you saying that I AM the one who made this? I would've loved to, but no i do not own this...
But still, thanks, you literaly just proved that all you did here was being childish, not reading what other said, neither their arguement nor the proof bakcing their argument. And all you could do was personaly attack them.
By the way, where are your proof? I'm still waiting for them, after all the things you said you must have some proof backing everything. I mean, you couldn't have insulted someone only because you didn't want to accept that you were wrong? Or is it that you still did not decide to follow your own advice?
Yeah right, it could not be that you didn't have anything backing a single thing you said in this discution... It totaly is not why you decided to not answer anymore.
Like always, people who start by insulting people of troll are always one who have nothings backing what they sat and think that they will win an argument just by insulting other.
You
Me
You
Me
Looking at the sloclap employees. Mostly Programmer, animators
So according to you people at sloclap earn even more then in my initial estimation.
Thx man. I was tired to argue against you anyway so thank you for contradicting yourself.
You just posted small part of different text one after the other to try your best to make yourself believe that you made a point. But none of these contradict what i said.
You say i proved your point, how come? You were wrong on how much a dev cost, wrong on how much a game cost, wrong on how much the avearge pay is in France, and wrong on the fact that Sloclap need external support when they already are supported by a huge company. And after this you react with "lol i was right!". That's impressive...
You still didn't explain where are your number explaining how Sifu cost "several million" nor anything you said.
I'm going to break it for you since you're too lazy to make any research, but my number are in "brut". This mean that it is before the "tax". So when it's writen "Salaire annuel : entre 30 000 € et 40 000 €" it mean that you have to substract the "tax", it lower the salary by a lot.
So again, tell me where i'm contradicting myself? And where you are right?
But you do know that i wasn't talking about salary but about the cost for sloclap.
The cost for an employe is not equal to their salary you know.
Here is what i said.
Keep turning salaries before and after tax it is pointless as i am talking about the cost for the employer. You act so fkn smart and do not even get this thing straight.
Let assume they only get 30.000 salary a year in your favor. And you have to add 1.2 to 1.4 on top for actual cost. Lets take the lowest again in your favor.
Means 1 of these pebs cost sloclap 36.000 a year. If we take the lowest factor.
80 employees in sloclap. Even if only 10 of those 80 employees are programmer/animators that would equal 360.000 bucks a year.
Your claim was that this 80 employee studio does not have costs higher then a million bucks for making sifu. You know this game was at least 2 years in development but probably even longer., You are just wrtong pal admit it and move on.
Your statment was that most indie games do not costs over a million. That might be true. But most indies also do not run a medium sized studio with 80 employees.
So just admit defeat and move on.
80 fkn employees. Even if you take a super low salary at 20.000 bucks you had costs of roundabout 25.000 per emploiyee for sloclap. 80 times 25.000 = 2 million bucks a year. If everyone at sloclap would work heavily underpayed.
In France the cost of an "employé" is directly related to how much he is paid and what kind of job he does. So it is related, because it literaly is how you calculate the cost for the one paying them.
You also were the one comming up with the avearge pay than French get, dont be surprised to be corrected when you spread miss information.
I never said this... I only said that the game didn't cost this much.
Because they have 80 people working for them AFTER the overwelming success of Sifu does not mean that they had these 80 people working on said game continuously for the year preceding it's release.
What's more most developpement studio do not work on a single project at all time, so this would again reduce the amount of people working on Sifu.
They are not indie... They have a publisher and are supported by a major investment found...